| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 10:04:02
On the 2000/2001 Flobeam assembly, there are what are described as "Fulcrum screws" which go through the throw lever and butt end. Any idea of the thread type, please? It's very fine so would that be BSF or UNF? I need to replace one of those fulcrum screws and wouldn't mind a few spares. |
| 36 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 09:33:00
quote:
Originally posted by Ralf
GREAT! That's it - thank you, Bazarre!
Frankly spoken, the Flobeam system in my (newly acquired) 2001 is still so full of dust and dirt that I hardly could imagine that there seems to be any possibility to disassemble part # 17 from the beam (I assumed it was a clinch sealing to the beam)!
I can see clearly now ;-)
Oh, btw, this is just great UK engineering (being typical for vintage Premier stuff).
Ralf
It's OK until all the little bits of wear add up and you can't get enough adjustment in the snare tension to get the wires tight. If only people who make snare wires for 2000/2001 made them slightly shorter, it would not be a problem. I have to admit I'm a bit obsessed with the parallel action system -- I think it gives an evenness of tension of the wires that make the drum sound good and I believe that the 2000 and 2001 are as good as any snare made and better than some very much more expensive ones.
The Ajax/John Grey parallel snare system is good in principle, and in some ways better than the Premier one, but the engineering side of it let it down. It needed to be a bit more beefy. When I finally retire and have the time, I'm going to design and make the ultimate parallel snare system! |
| Ralf |
Posted - 01/03/2012 : 08:36:03
GREAT! That's it - thank you, Bazarre!
Frankly spoken, the Flobeam system in my (newly acquired) 2001 is still so full of dust and dirt that I hardly could imagine that there seems to be any possibility to disassemble part # 17 from the beam (I assumed it was a clinch sealing to the beam)!
I can see clearly now ;-)
Oh, btw, this is just great UK engineering (being typical for vintage Premier stuff).
Ralf |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 29/02/2012 : 22:56:34
quote:
Originally posted by Ralf
Yes, but these dark greyish casings can't be taken away ... 'cause the metal bar inside is too long (it's ends look out of the shell on both sides for approx. 1 inch).
?
Ralf
Hey Ralf
Have a look at these links:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v162/tam52/Prem2000.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v162/tam52/flobeam2.jpg
From Tam's amazing store of knowledge! To get the bottom beam out of the shell you need to remove item numbers 13 to 17 from one end of the beam. There are two of course, but removing one will let you poke the beam through the shell enough to remove the other end first. I've found that the retaining star washer (13) can be removed carefully and re-used. By the way, the parts list shows 2 x part #14 (roller). I've had quite a few Flobeams apart now and there have only ever been one part #14. I've discovered this is best located in the assembly at the throw lever end -- the parallel action seems to work better with it there than at the butt end.
Those fulcrum screws part #3 in the diagam are 1/8" UNC usually referred to now as 5-40 UNC. I've now got the taps and die for that thread and have successfully modified a larger diameter BA imperial thread screw by turning it down and re-threading a short length under the head.
|
| Mcmaul |
Posted - 29/02/2012 : 20:07:32
I'm gettin mixed up with a royal ace. Doh!!
|
| Ralf |
Posted - 29/02/2012 : 19:31:08
Yes, but these dark greyish casings can't be taken away ... 'cause the metal bar inside is too long (it's ends look out of the shell on both sides for approx. 1 inch).
?
Ralf |
| Mcmaul |
Posted - 29/02/2012 : 19:20:32
You'll need to take the plastic parts out. Ralf. |
| Ralf |
Posted - 29/02/2012 : 19:02:37
I have another question to this Flobeam strainer: how can I dissassemble the wider bottom bar out of my 2001 wooden shell? I have put all attached parts from outside away, but it's still caught in those plastic parts (that fit into the shell) and can't be taken out of the shell.
There are also these two small conductor parts attached, obviously riveted each one at the end of the bar. They deter me to easily push the bar out at one side of the shell ...
?
Ralf |
| Herman M. |
Posted - 20/01/2012 : 16:14:36
I know it sounds a little brute, but why not use a spring pin instead of the bolt? As far as I can see on my 2000 this bolt only holds together the parts of the throwoff lever with the part that holds the adjustment screws for the snares.
Should do the job pretty well ... |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 18/01/2012 : 20:19:21
quote:
Originally posted by gryphon
Yep, that sounds right. Are you sure it's not 5-40 size. That is more or less the standard.
If you want to get a few to modify, you could get them here.
http://www.servocity.com/html/5-40_pan_head_phillips_machine.html
jim
Sorry, yes it'll be 5-40, the coarse version. I'm visiting a supplier tomorrow who thinks they can help with the same as you have mentioned. Looks like a plan. |
| gryphon |
Posted - 18/01/2012 : 17:38:43
Yep, that sounds right. Are you sure it's not 5-40 size. That is more or less the standard.
If you want to get a few to modify, you could get them here.
http://www.servocity.com/html/5-40_pan_head_phillips_machine.html
jim |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 18/01/2012 : 09:39:24
quote:
Originally posted by gryphon
I was afraid it would be that kind of screw. I think they may be 4-40 threads. I don't have any Royal Aces, just a Super ace and a late 60's 2000. I can check tomorrow to see if I'm right. I would think you could make one by turning down the threads of a regular machine screw.
Capt., regarding the plethora of Bazs, it's getting easier for me to get confused every day.
jim
5-44 according to dimensions I've seen on US thread data sites, Jim. |
| gryphon |
Posted - 18/01/2012 : 07:08:09
I was afraid it would be that kind of screw. I think they may be 4-40 threads. I don't have any Royal Aces, just a Super ace and a late 60's 2000. I can check tomorrow to see if I'm right. I would think you could make one by turning down the threads of a regular machine screw.
Capt., regarding the plethora of Bazs, it's getting easier for me to get confused every day.
jim |
| capt.wierd |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 16:00:39
Barry, can you post a pic where they go? If and when I get home I can check the pins for you.
|
| dooglesnak |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 15:50:50
quote:
Originally posted by Bazarre
These are the buggers:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee159/Rockinzolin/Prem2000Screw1.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee159/Rockinzolin/Prem2000Screw2.jpg
3/4" long, 1/8" dia. across the thread, threaded for about 3mm under the head only to screw into the outer casting only, then turned down about 5 gnats cocks to pass through the rest of the assembly.
What a peculiar design!!!  Would it not of made more sense to have the head on the other side like on the RA?!? |
| dogface |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 14:14:58
I can't tell from the description what the screws are doing exactly, but I think it's going to be a lot easier to modify the mechanism to take standard sized modern screws than it will be to find exact replacements. |
| Captain Bubble |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 13:39:34
Try to get a "Cheese Head". No idea what the thread size could be. The Prem one looks like it was cast or forged, then threaded on the shoulder, could be unique. |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 13:00:07
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
Holy Pooperoo, that's er, specific!
If you cannot find anything (have you tried Baskey Vintage?), is there enough meat on the casting to permit drilling and re-tapping to the nearest metric size? Then it would be possible to get a suitable bolt (over req'd length) and machine off most of the thread, then cut off the end which was in the chuck. Or lathe blank stepped pins then get die on the wide end.
I was thinking that if I can get the correct length, or longer, 1/8" UNF screws, with any head apart from countersink, I can turn the thread off as reqired and even turn the head down if necessary -- that fits into a recess in the casting. |
| capt.wierd |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 12:55:43
quote:
Originally posted by gryphon
I don't know about your part of the world, but around the U.S. if you need a small screw it can be convenient to visit a hobby shop that caters to those who build radio control airplanes and boats. They will have a rather good assortment of small nuts, bolts and machine screws. The better shops handling parts for model yachts will even have the hardware in stainless steel.
The shops in my area have machine screws as small as 00 size which you will never see in a hardware store or industrial supply.
jim
BTW Baz, have you recently been at the DFO site in the states posting about a gold Prem kit?
Jim, That's another Baz he's from Manchester, getting confusing ain't it? |
| Captain Bubble |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 12:50:15
Holy Pooperoo, that's er, specific!
If you cannot find anything (have you tried Baskey Vintage?), is there enough meat on the casting to permit drilling and re-tapping to the nearest metric size? Then it would be possible to get a suitable bolt (over req'd length) and machine off most of the thread, then cut off the end which was in the chuck. Or lathe blank stepped pins then get die on the wide end. |
| dogface |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 12:49:19
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
My old Premier kit had self-tappers for it lugs. Properly tapped lugs are stronger.
The problem was the lugs came off an old (unuseable) thin shelled drum and were destined to go on a thicker shell, hence the old screws weren't long enough.
Don't worry - the newly re-tapped lugs are not in any danger of falling off. |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 11:37:06
These are the buggers:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee159/Rockinzolin/Prem2000Screw1.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee159/Rockinzolin/Prem2000Screw2.jpg
3/4" long, 1/8" dia. across the thread, threaded for about 3mm under the head only to screw into the outer casting only, then turned down about 5 gnats cocks to pass through the rest of the assembly. |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 10:20:05
quote:
Originally posted by dogface
I had a similar problem a while back, trying to identify the thread size that Premier used on old lugs - no joy. In the end I drilled out the old holds and re-tapped them to M4. Of course, that will horrify those who must maintain vintage accuracy, but it worked for me.
I don't think little details like that matter -- you need the things to work! |
| Captain Bubble |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 09:50:30
My old Premier kit had self-tappers for it lugs. Properly tapped lugs are stronger. |
| dogface |
Posted - 17/01/2012 : 09:36:36
I had a similar problem a while back, trying to identify the thread size that Premier used on old lugs - no joy. In the end I drilled out the old holds and re-tapped them to M4. Of course, that will horrify those who must maintain vintage accuracy, but it worked for me. |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 23:22:19
quote:
Originally posted by gryphon
I don't know about your part of the world, but around the U.S. if you need a small screw it can be convenient to visit a hobby shop that caters to those who build radio control airplanes and boats. They will have a rather good assortment of small nuts, bolts and machine screws. The better shops handling parts for model yachts will even have the hardware in stainless steel.
The shops in my area have machine screws as small as 00 size which you will never see in a hardware store or industrial supply.
jim
BTW Baz, have you recently been at the DFO site in the states posting about a gold Prem kit?
Not me, Jim.
Went to a model/hobby shop today -- in the UK they seem to be 100% metric now. Some small sized BA (British Association) screws, too, but I've got loads of those and BA taps and dies, legacy from my Pa. |
| gryphon |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 23:07:49
I don't know about your part of the world, but around the U.S. if you need a small screw it can be convenient to visit a hobby shop that caters to those who build radio control airplanes and boats. They will have a rather good assortment of small nuts, bolts and machine screws. The better shops handling parts for model yachts will even have the hardware in stainless steel.
The shops in my area have machine screws as small as 00 size which you will never see in a hardware store or industrial supply.
jim
BTW Baz, have you recently been at the DFO site in the states posting about a gold Prem kit? |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 18:20:46
^^^ Now I'm getting excited. Just off to band practice tonight but will take pics tomorrow. Been all the afternoon trying to source UNF screws. Loads of suppliers do them -- 3/16" and larger, no small stuff! I think the 5.44 UNF is sometimes referred to as 1/8" UNF, that's the overall diameter. I expect there's tons of UNF and UNC stuff in the good old US of A. You can get 12.24 (or 7/32) UNC taps and dies easily in UK -- they're what most vint tension bolts are. Some very cheap ones in that size on eBay at the mo. |
| dooglesnak |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 16:24:39
I'm off to the nut and bolt store in hove to get some grub screws for my royal ace. If you can find out the size I could get some for you. |
| bERb |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 16:23:30
Can you put a photo on Baz, I might have a couple. |
| Mcmaul |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 16:13:52
quote:
Originally posted by Bazarre
This one's WMP, Dug.
Well the offers there, mate, the 2001 is the last mahog duro snare I need for me collection, and he'd be loved!! |
| Captain Bubble |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 15:49:41
No idea! I stupidly sold my 2000 and 35 decades ago, cannot even remember any screws apart from the snare level set ones. |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 15:06:32
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
Mike Ellis/Baskey probably knows and might even stock them, bound to b Imperial size. Always ensure your fulcrum is well screwed.
Yes, but what? These buggers are 1/8" overall dia. and BSF only goes down to 3/16". 6BA is too small and 4BA is too big -- there was a 5BA, but who the feck ever used that?! The nearest I can find on thread charts is the UNF equivalent. That's 5-44 UNF, 0.126" overall dia.,44 tpi, which would equate to 1/8" give or take a few tens of a thousandth inches and that looks about right pitch-wise. I seem to remember my Pa using UNF at Marconi radar for small stuff -- 1950s into the 1960s, so ... maybe ?? Other than that, there was British Standard Cycle threads which were quite fine -- Premier wouldn't have, would they?
At the moment everything is screwed apart from my fulcrum. I need to get out more. |
| Bazarre |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 12:29:54
This one's WMP, Dug. |
| Mcmaul |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 10:54:45
Ya could just send that drum to me and I'll fire ye an immaculate 2001 back in perfect grey shimmer?? |
| Captain Bubble |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 10:35:58
Mike Ellis/Baskey probably knows and might even stock them, bound to b Imperial size. Always ensure your fulcrum is well screwed. |
| Prog |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 10:05:09
I've no idea.
Happy to help. |
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Premier techie question
