| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 20:42:20
I will shortly have a set of Sonor Force 3003 shells on the way to me.
At the moment they have a very battered and tired scratched black wrap from what I can tell.
Sizes 22 BD, 16, 14, 12 toms.
I want a very cheap and cheerful project.
I was orignially thinking of using some vinyl decal over the wrap, but I read if not on a good surface then this will exacerbate the markings underneath.
At the moment, I'm favouring the idea of using some form of SUBTLE glitter paint in black with metal flakes (not sure which colour glitter to go for - maybe red or blue rather than silver).
Any recommendations on paint?
I know the 3003 has a couple of maple plies and basswood plies, but I'd imagine the maple is on the inside of the shells so laquer probably not a great option as an alternative.
I'm imagining spending about £50 on the project, so not a lot!
This kit to be used for local cover gigs.
Thanks in advance! 
P.S. Could I spray the wrap with car metalflake paint? Would it take to wrap? From spraying some old plastic bumpers I recollect that if carefully done it would take ok. |
| 39 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 13/03/2012 : 11:35:54
quote:
Originally posted by dogface
Well done - glad you proved me wrong about not getting it done in the time available.
 You were right though - If you count putting the kit back together again - that was completed on Monday.
There definitely wasn't enough time to do the job 100% properly in the time. |
| dogface |
Posted - 13/03/2012 : 10:09:52
Well done - glad you proved me wrong about not getting it done in the time available. |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 13/03/2012 : 00:10:19
P.S. Would I do it again? Nope...the removal of the old paint finish was really tiresome.
Next project would be re-wrap or even better remove wrap and paint! : ) |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 13/03/2012 : 00:07:49
Hey dogster, I did manage it in the end, but that included a couple of 3am finishes. Zzzzz.
I played the kit tonight and all and sundry thought it looked pretty good.
I've yet to do the photo thing but soon will do (most likely when all set up at the wedding gig this Saturday.
250ml black wood dye + 1 litre satin polyurethane + a fair amount of 200 micron black metal flakes.
It was a rushed job, but I'm 95% happy with it. Looks really smart and any sparkle is very subtle - in fact I may use the polisher element of the sander to just bring out some of the black metail flake shine a bit more.
Cost of project £90 shells, £32 courier, £30 sander (reusable), £12.50 extra sanding pads, paint, dye and metal flakes £25 plus £30 for 3 new tom heads. All in about £180 for the 4 shell project (not to mention the 25 hours + of labour and general pain!)
Thanks for your help and advice. Due to time constraints I ended up having to bypass many, many tips and instructions but it has been a great experience.
Now the proud owner of a very unique and very slightly imperfect Sonor 3003.
Photos to follow next week. |
| dogface |
Posted - 10/03/2012 : 12:49:14
Some of the modern two-pack polyester and polyurethane finishes just laugh in the face of Nitromors - it just won't have any effect on them at all. I'm told that a heat gun will get those finishes off, but I've never had any success with that method. I'd be tempted to just key the surface and paint that. I serously doubt you'll be able to do a full kit in a weekend whatever you do. |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 10/03/2012 : 02:43:22
First batch of Nitro Moors paint stripper applied to the 14" tom and 12" tom. The 12" tom had already had hours of sanding.
Got to do batch 2 tomorrow incl bass drum and repeat on the 14" tom.
I'm still stunned at the paintwork not wanting to shift. I've seen some youtube clips where the paint comes off so easily.
I need to be painting the kit by Sunday to have any chance of completion pre wedding! Gonna be a long weekend + kids and wife have flu so no idea quite how this is going to turn out yet - fingers crossed eh! |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 21:18:02
I've started! Funny how plans change though. I started sanding and it was taking absolutely forever. I only have until March 17 to complete the whole job.
The paintwork on the Sonor 3003 is pretty robust to say the least (even though made in China).
I then used a blade from a stanley knife to scrape. Still it was taking forever. I think this demonstrates the paint work was pretty good.
IN the end I bought a Black & Decker sander - one of the nooks and crannies type ones. It's still taking a long time, as this sander isn't really heavy duty. It's doing a lovely job so far. The 10" tom is sanded and the 12" tom is half done. All the hardware and stickers removed from the kit.
All being well I want to be in position to paint the kit next Saturday giving a good week of drying time pre wedding gig.
The Gretsch kit sounds nice Picto.
|
| Picto |
Posted - 02/03/2012 : 12:51:34
I sanded some Gretsch Stop Sign's down last year - did it by hand - it was a long drawn out job! However, the finished result was well worth it - they ended up very smooth, with a beautiful grain which readily accepted the oil finish I used.Unfortunatley, both the bass drum and rack tom had holes that need filling,and the maple dowels I used show up as dark circles on the shells. However, they don't detract from the finish to a significant degree, and I was able to get a 'new' Stop Sign for about £800 all in (including new chrome t/out). Sounds the danglies as well! |
| therain |
Posted - 29/02/2012 : 12:04:13
quote:
Originally posted by dogface
BE VERY CAREFUL WITH A SANDER!!
Electric sanders can take off a lot of material very quickly and it would be easy to sand through the top ply and end up with flats here and there. I would recommend sanding by hand. It takes longer but there's far less risk of things going horribly wrong.
...the sander, my nemesis. Nearly destroyed my first self-painted kit with that. Man, I was near tears that day. Now it's only sanding by hand for me. Might take longer, but it can be very meditative  |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 28/02/2012 : 23:24:59
Thanks mate - yes they are compatible to mix together.
Planning on testing a small area first, although a more subtle stain would be appealing to me as long as it isn't too subtle if you know what I mean.
: ) |
| dogface |
Posted - 27/02/2012 : 14:59:58
The stain will be quite subtle if mixed in with the varnish - that's assuming they're compatible. You can't mix water based stain with oil based varnish, but you can mix it with water based varnish. Better to apply the stain to the bare wood. If you want the finish to be gloss black with no wood showing, then black paint would be better.
Here's a possible method: brush on black paint, sand it down, re-coat as necessary to get a good base. Then use an aerosol can of metallic paint to get the metallic effect over the black base coat. Then varnish over the top to get protection and a nice clear coat. |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 26/02/2012 : 14:14:51
P.S. Thanks for everyone's help. |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 26/02/2012 : 14:14:07
Good luck with the floor tom! Know what you mean, it's always tricky trying to balance everything.
I've just purchased the following
Polyurethane Varnish (1L,Satin) and Wood Dye (Water Based) 250ml,Black
Plan is to mix them up and once sanded down...apply!
I'd like to mix in some metal flake or something that will just give a light shimmer.
Will see what I can find.
As I said, cheap, cheerful and quick - I'll make it as good as I can though. No of coats will depend on how it looks after one : )
|
| dogface |
Posted - 24/02/2012 : 15:22:58
I'm intending to finish off a 14" floor tom before a gig on 22nd March but I wouldn't be surprised if I don't quite manage it. However, I need some kind of deadline or things never get finished. |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 23/02/2012 : 22:10:08
quote:
Originally posted by dogface
A flat sander on a flat surface is one thing - a flat sander on a curved surface is another.
I hear ya!
Point taken - I will leave the sander on the shelf.
I haven't started this job yet, but plan to complete the project by 17th March when we play at one of our band members weddings.
The kit will be unveiled then : ) I'll sort some photos out too as I progress. |
| dogface |
Posted - 19/01/2012 : 13:08:47
A flat sander on a flat surface is one thing - a flat sander on a curved surface is another. |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 18/01/2012 : 23:17:45
Appreciate the advice - I'll see how the sander works on our windows first! If it is nice and manageable/slow speed etc then I may try it out on a small section first : ) |
| dogface |
Posted - 16/01/2012 : 13:39:19
BE VERY CAREFUL WITH A SANDER!!
Electric sanders can take off a lot of material very quickly and it would be easy to sand through the top ply and end up with flats here and there. I would recommend sanding by hand. It takes longer but there's far less risk of things going horribly wrong. |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 14/01/2012 : 00:56:58
Stage 1: Sister is loaning me a sander and detail sander. Pay day not far off now post Christmas, so time for some action soon. I haven't forgotten your help and recommendations. I'll be taking before and after photos.
As a side issue, I'm getting along with this kit very well. Threw some Vintage A heads on the tom batter sides and the kit has a decent sound I can definitely live with for some time. This is good, as it will encourage me to do a good job! : ) |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 11/12/2011 : 20:56:12
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
Whether you use stain or paint any irregularities will be shown up by a glossy finish, but Craig and Rose do a Super Flat Matt finish but I cannot remember if it is lacquer or polyurethane. However that sort of finish can look dull on wood. An alternative is oil / wax. Danish oil is very nice, Outdoor Danish is very nearly as nice and dries much faster. Wax to finish if desired.
Thanks v much Capt'n. I'll do the prep work first. Will definitely check out the Danish Oil option too.  |
| Captain Bubble |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 19:59:07
Whether you use stain or paint any irregularities will be shown up by a glossy finish, but Craig and Rose do a Super Flat Matt finish but I cannot remember if it is lacquer or polyurethane. However that sort of finish can look dull on wood. An alternative is oil / wax. Danish oil is very nice, Outdoor Danish is very nearly as nice and dries much faster. Wax to finish if desired. |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 19:06:42
quote:
Originally posted by Rich RT
I use these foam brushes when applying stain, wipe on with the brush, then wipe of excess with a cloth.
Use the same for applying the poly/lacquer. They cut down on brush marks.
There are loads of different sizes if you do a search
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Box-36-x-3-Foam-Paint-Brushes-2-50-only-pp-/180770897977?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Paint_Varnish_MJ&hash=item2a16c90039
Thanks Rich - that's fantastic. I will look forward to doing this project as soon as Christmas is over. |
| Rich RT |
Posted - 09/12/2011 : 16:35:20
I use these foam brushes when applying stain, wipe on with the brush, then wipe of excess with a cloth.
Use the same for applying the poly/lacquer. They cut down on brush marks.
There are loads of different sizes if you do a search
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Box-36-x-3-Foam-Paint-Brushes-2-50-only-pp-/180770897977?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Paint_Varnish_MJ&hash=item2a16c90039 |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 19:50:45
Thank you very much for your replies. I've taken these all on board.
I've no breathing apparatus or safety gear or spray gear. I'll be using brush most likely. Also wondering whether I'd get a good finish applying black stain with a sponge or similar.
I think I'd prefer to go back to the wood and apply the black stain approach Rich RT has suggested.
Once done, I'll place some photos up on here. Will see what it looks like matt to start with. Maybe it will get a few coats of laquer depending on the outcome of the stain.
Thanks for the link too Rich. |
| dogface |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 11:12:37
Your paint choices are determined by the equipment you have available. Do you have spraying equipment? Do you have breathing apparatus? Do you have UV curing facilities? Certain types of finish require all three, some just require a spray gun, though you'll still need a space to use it.
The low tech method I use is a brush and a cloth. I use water based acrylic paint, thinned with water. Brush it on and sand it back between coats. Be prepared to apply several coats. Thinner paint requires more coats but won't develop brush marks so easily. Thicker paint requires fewer coats but sanding out any brush marks will be more work.
When you're happy with the colour coats, you can apply a clear top coat. I use polyurethane varnish thinned with white spirit and applied with a cloth. The whole process is quite time consuming but is cheap in terms of materials and equipment. I have used ordinary acrylic paint from craft shops with good results. The clear top coat is what makes the job look good.
A complete refinish is possibly easier than trying to touch up damage to the existing finish. |
| ian-40 |
Posted - 07/12/2011 : 21:23:34
I've just painted some early 60's oly shells. used our compressor/spray gun at work. now im not the best spray painter in the world, but i took my time and gave 4 coats to each drum. all i need to do now is find an aerosol 'lacquer' to finish them. looks good, so you could try that if you have access to the equipment |
| Rich RT |
Posted - 07/12/2011 : 09:11:40
Id guess it would take a lot of work to sand back to the wood..?
Black paint is very hard to get a good finish if you are going for a gloss, shows up every imperfection! Id probably go for a black stain with a couple of layers of clear brush on Polyurethane. Can get a high gloss with a few layers and a bit of wet sanding, or just go for the matt/stain poly.
http://www.wood-finishes-direct.com/products/wood-finishes/varnish-and-lacquers/polyurethane-varnish.htm
|
| graham3030 |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 23:07:46
Paint?
Just propping up this post a bit as I haven't quite got a paint recommendation yet...black stain is now the favourite but ideally want something good quality that goes on nice and easily without needing 400 coats. Thanks : ) |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 21:29:16
Guys...following on from the saga above.
I have the kit - it's paint over the shells finish. The shells are a bit tatty as described above.
This is a cheap project.
I can either sand back to wood and paint - black stain over the shells. I quite like matt/non laquer finish.
Or
Lightly sand and apply a further coat to the existing paintwork (probably along the lines of the existing finish - black paint and laquer - shine finish.
I'm after paint recommendations if possible. My thoughts are the stain finish might be the best way to go?
Thanks in advance. |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 18/11/2011 : 11:44:28
Guys & Gals. My mistake!!!!!!!!
The 3003 has arrived and the shells are painted, not wrapped (Doh!). Looks like horizontal machine applied brush coats, then laquer finish.
I guess this changes things now! There are scratches down to the wood and one or two dings (bass drum where toms have knocked into the BD wood fairly heavily) but from 6 feet away doesn't look too bad.
Shells all good.
I have to source a new bass drum hoop (it's had a non-rounded replacement hoop on the front which has been painted over the original colour) and source one or two other bits, but generally this is going to make a great gig kit.
I guess I'm now considering paint finish options and in many ways I'm thinking as a first option I ought to make the most of what I've got.
Any tips for bringing the paint work up nicely.
Black is probably a good colour to work with.
Does T cut work on paint/laquer on drums as well as wrap or will that be too harsh?
I guess a very thin wood filler would be the way to go on small dings, then touch up paint.
Any tips welcome.
I think if I painted the whole thing, then it would not be as nice a finish as most of what's already there.
Thanks as always for your help and I know some of my questions might seem stupid, but I just want to make sure I don't cork it up! : )
|
| graham3030 |
Posted - 15/11/2011 : 16:38:04
Very nice finishes on those kits. Certainly gives me some ideas. Thank you. |
| Th0mas25 |
Posted - 15/11/2011 : 12:29:58
See how you go when you actually get the drums Graham, they might clean up, or might not be so bad in the flesh. But if you go the way of a re-wrap, it's not difficult, and it's very satisfying. There's some wrap projects on my site, but there are plenty threads with info too. By the way, this is the Jobeky wrap I used:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/r1dgie25/Drums/Louiskit3.jpg
And on Andrew/Monkeythedrummer's kit, hope he doesn't mind me posting these:
http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/andrewlikestoplay/?action=view¤t=DSC00205.jpg
http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/andrewlikestoplay/?action=view¤t=DSC00354.jpg
Wrap for mine was about £40-odd delivered as one big sheet, a full size kit would be more but still good value I reckon. It's a very tight metallic sparkle finish, I'm sure they do various finishes. It's slightly thinner than expensive wraps but not like the cheap stick-on stuff. I have nowt to do with Jobeky by the way, but just pleased with quality and value of this stuff
|
| graham3030 |
Posted - 15/11/2011 : 11:30:10
quote:
Originally posted by Th0mas25
I haven't tried this but I'm doubtful that any kind of paint will work on the wrap. It may do to begin with, but I would think it would scratch or flake off again very easily.
For the work involved... you're talking about stripping the hardware etc. anyway... I'd be looking to rewrap the kit I think. Jobeky had some nice metallic sparkle wraps for not a lot of £, I used red sparkle on my boy's kit, I think Monkey did a kit in green sparkle too, looks really good! That would certainly improve things a lot and be within your £50 budget.
quote:
I have wondered whether anyone has use car polish colour restorer on wrap before.
I used this on an old BDP Ajax snare that was really faded. I used T-cut, and then Autoglym car polish after that, and it brought the wrap up really nice. But for a plain black wrap covered in scratches I don't think it would improve it much I'm afraid.
Thanks Thomas
I'll see what state they are in when they arrive. If not too scratched then I'll go for the T-Cut and polish. It does sound like a re-wrap might be the way to go. It will be a first re-wrap for me, so I'll search the forum for some tips before I start. I'll take a look at the Jobeky place.
Thanks once again. |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 11/11/2011 : 11:48:09
Hi Capt'n, I don't have them yet, but they will be scratched, dinged and pretty much everything else inbetween, but I think all wraps are in place and no bubbling or peeling.
Maybe, I should try the T cut restoration as a first port of call (no pun intended).
I'll let you all know how that goes when the shells arrive next week.
Thanks once again. |
| Th0mas25 |
Posted - 11/11/2011 : 11:38:45
I haven't tried this but I'm doubtful that any kind of paint will work on the wrap. It may do to begin with, but I would think it would scratch or flake off again very easily.
For the work involved... you're talking about stripping the hardware etc. anyway... I'd be looking to rewrap the kit I think. Jobeky had some nice metallic sparkle wraps for not a lot of £, I used red sparkle on my boy's kit, I think Monkey did a kit in green sparkle too, looks really good! That would certainly improve things a lot and be within your £50 budget.
quote:
I have wondered whether anyone has use car polish colour restorer on wrap before.
I used this on an old BDP Ajax snare that was really faded. I used T-cut, and then Autoglym car polish after that, and it brought the wrap up really nice. But for a plain black wrap covered in scratches I don't think it would improve it much I'm afraid. |
| Captain Bubble |
Posted - 11/11/2011 : 11:15:59
Even if you key and clean the surface some paints will still peel off, you can get plastic primer sprays which may help. In what way is the wrap damaged? Very fine wet and dry, T Cut etc can all bring wraps back to life |
| graham3030 |
Posted - 11/11/2011 : 10:24:35
Lucas, thanks very much for your reply. I had started to wonder whether anyone knew the answer.
I was planning to remove all hardware, and then mask over the holes and rims/shell edges (probably cling film over the top/bottom to protect inside the shells held on with masking tape.
Thanks for the sanding and white spirit advice.
It doesn't matter if I ended up with a matt finish, but just wanted to ensure the paint would take to the wrap. Even considering some form of car spray paint.
Taking off the wrap would lead to other issues - lug spacers and so on.
Cheap wrap would look worse than it may do already.
Shame no one does some form of wrap restorer - I have wondered whether anyone has use car polish colour restorer on wrap before.
: )
Thanks for your help. |
| lucas |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 15:55:07
Difficult one Graham. You would need to strip the drums to paint them anyway. If not, the amount of masking on the drum hardware would take forever.
If you really like the sound of the kit, and its not just a practice/backup jobby why not try and remove the wrap once its stripped of parts?
Try at the overlap join. You may be lucky and the wrap has a double sided tape fix, meaning its only fixed in two places. If its a glue job see how easy it is to remove. If its a pig to get off you may want to leave it If you dont want to spend money on it.
If you do decide to paint over the wrap make sure its got a good bond with the drums and be sure to sand the wrap lightly with fine emery or glass paper. Then clean it with white spirit, or some such, to remove any dirt or grease to give the paint something to adhere to or it will just peel off and look worse than the original.
Good luck.
|
| graham3030 |
Posted - 09/11/2011 : 14:45:21
Geez...just seen this link http://www.mikedolbear.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=100816
Still, I'd be interested to know if spraying the wrap with metalflake paint would take? I've changed the topic title now to attract y'alls attention |
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