| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Yard |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 09:27:06
I have never smoked but do not mind being amongst those that do.
I sat and listened to Andrew Lansley MP state that smoking is far more harmful than responsible drinking and that HE would like to see smoking banned in cars and in the presence of children too (so expect legislation soon)
I should imagine that far more money is spent on mopping up streets,policing and hospital bills for drink related incidents than mad smokers running amok?
Freedom of choice is quickly being eroded.
If it is so important why don't they ban tobacco sales totally and save poncing about or would it upset Bernie Ecclestone at the next social gathering?
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| 32 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| www.ecymbals.co.uk |
Posted - 09/04/2012 : 14:24:14
quote:
Originally posted by gaz farrimond
quote:
Originally posted by Unkle Kev
Taxation would also decrease due to the significant reduction in NHS spend resulting from fewer people suffering the health effects of smoking.
It wouldn't: The government raise more money from cigarette taxation than they spend on smoking related disease treatment.
Only if it's legal tobacco that is being smoked.
People who smoke smuggled tobacco or "weed" are being supplied by people who don't follow normal accountancy procedures.
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| djohnson1974 |
Posted - 08/04/2012 : 12:03:46
quote:
Originally posted by Sharklaar
Saw some old chav woman the other day screaming at one of her kids, "Oi, you get your facking arse in that facking car or I'll facking hit you I promise I will, I'll facking hit you!"
And, as Yard says, this is why chavs grow up pig ignorant. Makes you wonder... these parents must be under the impression that it's acceptable behaviour. Shocking.
What really upsets me is that kids with parents like that think it is a normal and acceptible way to behave! What chance have they got really 
Education and sterilisation its the only way |
| Sharklaar |
Posted - 08/04/2012 : 11:47:43
Saw some old chav woman the other day screaming at one of her kids, "Oi, you get your facking arse in that facking car or I'll facking hit you I promise I will, I'll facking hit you!"
And, as Yard says, this is why chavs grow up pig ignorant. Makes you wonder... these parents must be under the impression that it's acceptable behaviour. Shocking. |
| Yard |
Posted - 08/04/2012 : 11:02:05
quote:
Originally posted by Unkle Kev
quote:
Originally posted by Yard
My theory was that the parents were held responsible for the welfare of their kids and not the State?
Can we ban parents swearing in front of their kids too?
Does swearing cause physical harm? Not quite in the same risk category? And anyway, what parent would want to swear in front of a child?
Parents are responsible for the welfare of their children. It is when they fail that children deserve the protection of the law. And parents who smoke in the same space as their children are failing their children.
It does not cause physical harm but it leads to the kids being as pig ignorant as the parents in later life which we are picking up the tab for!! |
| thebeaver |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 10:46:23
quote:
Originally posted by Yard
The welfare of kids is down to their parents if they behave responsibly?
Its not just smoking in front of your own children though. I recently took my 3ry old niece to the park where we had a picnic. We were sat on one of about 4 free park picnic benches when a couple came in, their kid went to play on the swings and they came straight over to our bench, sat on the other side and both lit up. Disgusting. |
| Captain Bubble |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 08:06:25
The funny thing is that before I smoked I did not like the smell of cigarettes or cigars, although some pipe smoke was quite pleasant. When I started smoking I stopped noticing the smell and litter, as OA said, and I used to resent namby-pamby moaning minnies and do-gooders whinging on and on about the smell of me and fellow smokers! I thought it was ridiculous and a reduction of human rights when the authorities started banning smoking in trains and buses, another massive blow to our liberty.
Then I finally gave up for good the stench became disgusting again, and the fact that so many smokers leave fag ends all over the place. I am forever cleaning other peoples' fag ends up in our yard because they cannot be bothered to bin them. Trains, tubes and buses are now SO much better without the stench and litter. In your own home, and not in front of children seems the best way for everyone's "rights" to be upheld. |
| OriginalAnimal |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 23:44:07
Once again we are getting many statistics thrown at us
Fact tobacco smoke does contain harmful substances,
Fact, get into the car/house of a smoker and for days after it wreaks of stale smoke, I remember what my gear used to smell like days after a gig
I don't smoke, therefore I notice it, the fact is that smokers do not noyice it and are either blind or ignorant of this issue
If you want to smoke, that is fine by me, but do not inflict your addiction on me, your children or anyone else!
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| Sharklaar |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 23:17:26
The health visitor once told us, "You may not touch your child for 1hr 30 mins after you've had a cigarette". Eh? So what happens between 1hr 28m and 1hr 30m that suddenly makes me clean to pick up my child? Rubbish. Numbers plucked out of the air. We wash hands face and mouth after smoking, don't smoke around wee man etc etc. Both my parents smoked when I was a baby and that was before the health and safety nightmare we appear to slipped into. And I'm fine and healthy.
If a little cynical...
If it were true that the government would save money by banning it, they would have done so many, many years ago.
I agree it would be a good thing for public health if it were banned, that's a no brainer. But while it's profitable for The Man, The Man will allow it. Because The Man is ultimately primarily concerned about The Man's bottom line and not public health issues.
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| djohnson1974 |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 23:06:02
Did you know that smokers who come into contact with children up to 2 hours after having a ciggy still breathe out harmful substances? I personally think smoking should just be banned overnight, 4-6 weeks of national cold turkey and the country would move onto worrying about fuel prices again. What the government would loose in tax they'll save on NHS bills!!! Cigarettes have been directly responsible for killing all 4 of my grandparents and causing countless health issues in my extended family. I dearly hope by the time my kids get into their teens cigarettes have been banned. |
| Sharklaar |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 22:26:05
quote:
Originally posted by monkeythedrummer
quote:
Originally posted by Sharklaar
I never smoke in the presence of my son. We both smoke, and we smoke outside only. I smoke in the car, but not when Bob is in the car with me (which is not very often at all). I would go mad if I couldn't smoke on a 3 hour trip somewhere. Banning it in cars entirely is ridiculous - it's your own space. It's be like banning it in your house. As long as it's legal to smoke in general then this is a silly idea.
Not just in cars but in cars when there are minors present.
Original post said... "HE would like to see smoking banned in cars and in the presence of children too". I read this as in both cases, ie: 1) in cars and 2) in the presence of minors.
I'm all for banning smoking in cars when kids are present. That's a moronic thing to do. I might be going a bit mad on a long trip without a fag but if little man was in the car I'd be taking a few breaks to smoke away from him if smoking were required. |
| Unkle Kev |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 21:51:40
quote:
Originally posted by Yard
My theory was that the parents were held responsible for the welfare of their kids and not the State?
Can we ban parents swearing in front of their kids too?
Does swearing cause physical harm? Not quite in the same risk category? And anyway, what parent would want to swear in front of a child?
Parents are responsible for the welfare of their children. It is when they fail that children deserve the protection of the law. And parents who smoke in the same space as their children are failing their children. |
| monkeythedrummer |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 21:35:48
quote:
Originally posted by Sharklaar
I never smoke in the presence of my son. We both smoke, and we smoke outside only. I smoke in the car, but not when Bob is in the car with me (which is not very often at all). I would go mad if I couldn't smoke on a 3 hour trip somewhere. Banning it in cars entirely is ridiculous - it's your own space. It's be like banning it in your house. As long as it's legal to smoke in general then this is a silly idea.
Not just in cars but in cars when there are minors present. |
| Yard |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 21:23:21
My theory was that the parents were held responsible for the welfare of their kids and not the State?
Can we ban parents swearing in front of their kids too? |
| Grahame B |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 21:07:00
quote:
Originally posted by Sharklaar
quote:
Originally posted by gaz farrimond
quote:
Originally posted by Unkle Kev
Taxation would also decrease due to the significant reduction in NHS spend resulting from fewer people suffering the health effects of smoking.
It wouldn't: The government raise more money from cigarette taxation than they spend on smoking related disease treatment.
They probably raise more from cigarette tax than they spend on alcohol and tobacco related NHS services. So as a smoker, I'm paying more than my fair share to get NHS treatment if I get some nasty disease from it...
A bit like insurance, the higher the risk - the more you pay. |
| stakka |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 20:59:49
quote:
Originally posted by Unkle Kev
I have no issue with any adult being free to smoke, drink, or stick a potato up their bum; at any time or anywhere they aren't imposing on someone else without consent. I do one of these myself regularly ;-)
I find peeling them first assists greatly btw.
Sorry Yard but where is the freedom of choice for the children strapped in the back of the cars and being subjected to carcinogens ? Tell em to just wind the window down ? |
| Unkle Kev |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 17:45:01
I have no issue with any adult being free to smoke, drink, or stick a potato up their bum; at any time or anywhere they aren't imposing on someone else without consent. I do one of these myself regularly. ;-)
The discussion about legal intervention was around smoking in the presence of children. They can't stop it happening to them, it is happening to them, so it should be stopped. If adults won't take responsibility for stopping it, the law should. |
| gaz farrimond |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 17:37:52
quote:
Originally posted by Unkle Kev
I didn't mean overall. I meant the difference wouldn't be just the difference in revenue. And I'd rather see a tax increase than save a few bob out of legalised poison.
Ahhhhhh....
I agree, but I don't think many others will agree with us to pay more tax to ban cigarettes.
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| Unkle Kev |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 17:23:43
I didn't mean overall. I meant the difference wouldn't be just the difference in revenue. And I'd rather see a tax increase than save a few bob out of legalised poison. |
| Sharklaar |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 17:23:40
quote:
Originally posted by gaz farrimond
quote:
Originally posted by Unkle Kev
Taxation would also decrease due to the significant reduction in NHS spend resulting from fewer people suffering the health effects of smoking.
It wouldn't: The government raise more money from cigarette taxation than they spend on smoking related disease treatment.
They probably raise more from cigarette tax than they spend on alcohol and tobacco related NHS services. So as a smoker, I'm paying more than my fair share to get NHS treatment if I get some nasty disease from it... |
| gaz farrimond |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 17:19:48
quote:
Originally posted by Unkle Kev
Taxation would also decrease due to the significant reduction in NHS spend resulting from fewer people suffering the health effects of smoking.
It wouldn't: The government raise more money from cigarette taxation than they spend on smoking related disease treatment.
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| Sharklaar |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 17:19:20
I never smoke in the presence of my son. We both smoke, and we smoke outside only. I smoke in the car, but not when Bob is in the car with me (which is not very often at all). I would go mad if I couldn't smoke on a 3 hour trip somewhere. Banning it in cars entirely is ridiculous - it's your own space. It's be like banning it in your house. As long as it's legal to smoke in general then this is a silly idea. |
| Unkle Kev |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 16:57:59
Taxation would also decrease due to the significant reduction in NHS spend resulting from fewer people suffering the health effects of smoking. |
| WendyB |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 16:50:55
If smoking was banned, income tax or VAT would have to rise to compensate for the loss of revenue. At least currently, we have a choice whether to smoke or not, and therefore whether to further subsidise the government or not. |
| NCEL |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 16:33:41
I'd be over the moon if smoking was banned in cars. Preferably in private residences and residential areas and streets and countryside areas as well.
Basically I want there to be a designated car park, or steel box of some kind, in every town which is the only area where you won't be arrested for sparking up. We could call them 'Cancer Generators' and charge an entry fee.
Smoking is messy, smelly, and rude - but it generates too much income in taxes to ever be heavily clamped down on.
(I'm a non-smoker, by the way...) |
| Unkle Kev |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 16:32:15
If the parents won't protect their own kids by not smoking in the same space as them, then the law should protect the children. How unbelievably selfish is it to risk a child's health? Not my definition of a responsible adult. |
| monkeythedrummer |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 15:53:48
quote:
Originally posted by Yard
I have never smoked but do not mind being amongst those that do.
I sat and listened to Andrew Lansley MP state that smoking is far more harmful than responsible drinking and that HE would like to see smoking banned in cars and in the presence of children too (so expect legislation soon)
Freedom of choice is quickly being eroded.
That's the just issue. What "freedom of choice" do small children in cars with parents smoking have?
Can't **** stand it, and I think it should be illegal. |
| OriginalAnimal |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 13:13:07
quote:
Originally posted by beezerk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
I smoked for years, gave up, started again, then gave up for good. Smoking in front of children really is bad but I doubt any law would be enforceable, just as it is clearly impossible for the Law to stop drivers using hand-held phones.
To digress slightly, the amount of drivers I see still using mobiles is astounding, it seems to be getting worse. I saw a tanker driver fly out onto a roundabout yesterday without even looking, one hand on the wheel, the other holding his phone to his ear. Stupidity rules it would appear, arrogance and ignorance.
I too see more & more people on their phones. I will not answer whilst driving, as I get older I find that concentrating on the road is more than anough of a task, even drinking & driving is becoming a chore!! as is trying to get the last MacDonalds fry out of the carton whilst negotiating heavy traffic |
| beezerk |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 10:33:19
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
I smoked for years, gave up, started again, then gave up for good. Smoking in front of children really is bad but I doubt any law would be enforceable, just as it is clearly impossible for the Law to stop drivers using hand-held phones.
To digress slightly, the amount of drivers I see still using mobiles is astounding, it seems to be getting worse. I saw a tanker driver fly out onto a roundabout yesterday without even looking, one hand on the wheel, the other holding his phone to his ear. Stupidity rules it would appear, arrogance and ignorance. |
| gaz farrimond |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 10:18:10
quote:
Originally posted by Yard
Freedom of choice is quickly being eroded.
If it is so important why don't they ban tobacco sales totally and save poncing about or would it upset Bernie Ecclestone at the next social gathering?
Because the government raise more money from cigarette taxation than they spend on smoking related disease treatment. I smoked for years, one day I just got up, coughed myself silly and decided enough was enough.
I've always thought how a protest involving no-one buying alcohol, cigarettes and petrol every weekend for a month would hit government coffers.
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| Captain Bubble |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 10:07:01
I smoked for years, gave up, started again, then gave up for good. Smoking in front of children really is bad but I doubt any law would be enforceable, just as it is clearly impossible for the Law to stop drivers using hand-held phones.
There is one place where I really would like a total smoking ban and instant painful death for any transgressors: go to any supermarket or shopping centre and you can easily find the cycle racks... all the smokers are leaning on them, stinking out the area, and littering the ground with fag ends and gob, YUCK!!! |
| Yard |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 09:58:43
The welfare of kids is down to their parents if they behave responsibly?
Its the erosion of freedom of choice and liberties that worries me.
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| beezerk |
Posted - 06/04/2012 : 09:49:23
I agree with his statement that smoking should be banned in cars where kids are present, I'd actually extend it to smoking in any place where kids are present. Impossible to police obviously but it's my opinion on it.
I know people who wouldn't dream of smoking in front of kids and others who just really don't give a flying hoot about the health of their kids. |
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