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NormanHouse
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
936 Posts |
 Posted - 01/04/2012 : 13:22:05
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......So have all my coworkers and many thousands more in the Public Sector.
It Politely informs me that £25 per month will now be taken from my salary every month because me and the team/Department/Ministry are not "good value".
I'm reliably informed that the £600 per annum taken from my salary is not a pay cut. It will of course rise if my pay does.
It applies to me and all staff - even those on £13k - not much above minimum wage.
The same applies to my partner (also in the Public Sector). £600 would usually pay for a holiday. Since we both earn in excess of £20k (only just mind) they want £128 of each of us in 'overpaid working Families Tax credit this month also. I think we got about £300 a year.
I absolutely do not want sympathy or advice. I want people to get angry with this shower of mendacious incompetents.
Still nice to know people like Hestor made £200k this week without doing a stroke.
The one consolation is that the Lib Dems will be consigned to oblivion after the next election. |
"Gonna send you back to Walker" (Geordieland) |
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Grahame B
Advanced Contributer
Saint Helena
14861 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 15:42:05
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I have to say that if we're going to start talking about 'good value' now...
Then Hague, Cameron, Osborne, Maude, 'unt, Warsi, Clegg, Alexander and so on, had better get their blummen cheque books out.
Angry ? I'm already at boiling point. |
http://tinyurl.com/r38zpn
Tempus Fudgit ( censored )
"You won't get a refund from me no matter how hard you try."
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New Boy
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5150 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 15:45:35
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My wife works for the DWP (No, not that one) no pay raise for last three years, so effectively she's probaly 15% worse off, possibly more as food etc has gone up a lot more. I earn decent money but because of that we'll not get any family allowance whilst people who earn more with their combined salary will continue to get it.
I think times are the hardest in my twenty years of working. |
Free the Tempus one - The missing thread lives on!
(Carrera, Highwood, Amedia,Paiste).
http://www.saraban.co.uk/ |
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WendyB
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5651 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 16:05:05
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That is nasty Norman. They take with one hand, and take with the other too.
Do many people actually get an annual pay rise any more? Though MrB and I work for ourselves, I had to take a pay cut last year as my business was not earning so much, and he took a cut to start a new business, after not having a pay rise (his own choice) for 6 years. The joys of working for yourself! We are comfortable, for the time being.
We don't receive tax credits, which is fine as many people need the money more than we do, and the child allowance for No1 Daughter will stop this year anyway as she goes to Uni, which means more expense for us too. Let's hope the gig money keeps rolling in regularly. |
I am No 5
www.wearefullyloaded.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ AND www.unforgivenmusic.co.uk
Honorary Forum Cupcake Baker. Nomnomnomnom. |
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NormanHouse
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 16:14:42
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quote:
Originally posted by WendyB
That is nasty Norman. They take with one hand, and take with the other too.
Do many people actually get an annual pay rise any more? Though MrB and I work for ourselves, I had to take a pay cut last year as my business was not earning so much, and he took a cut to start a new business, after not having a pay rise (his own choice) for 6 years. The joys of working for yourself!
No pay rise for three years - last deal meant those earning less than £18k got a £200 one of payment which doesn't count towards pension.
VAT was 15% last time we had a raise so increases there and fuel have not helped.
I note things like the Winter fuel allowance has gone too. I've not mentioned the NHS 'reforms' either'- remember how during the election build up cash was to be 'ring fenced'? |
"Gonna send you back to Walker" (Geordieland) |
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OriginalAnimal
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
19302 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 22:13:40
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NormanHouse, you are both earning over £20k and get working tax credit
And you expect me to feel sorry for you!!!!
Feck off and get a life, I get £300 per month my wife's earning are down to 15 hours a week and you don't know that you've been born
TWUNT |
I have no time to practice, I'm gigging. Leicester Drum Sniffers Anonymous. #17 of the 582 & 17 0f the 798 World Record Holders.
Jobeky, 2Box Drumit 5, Premier, Highwood/DM drums Paul Brook Snare, Matt Nolan cymbals, Silverstone Drum (seats) Thrones. Los Cabos drumsticks
Re Cycling drums is the future. |
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Zimmo
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
419 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 22:48:50
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I wouldn't put it quite as bluntly as that, but the same thought crossed my mind.
A combined income of over 40K AND tax credits sounds quite nice.....
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The Southern Cymbal Stroker's Society. (Affiliated to the Northern Drum Sniffers' League)
www.straightshooterrocks.com
www.myspace.com/straightshooterrock |
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monkeythedrummer
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
9184 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 22:55:43
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quote:
Originally posted by OriginalAnimal
NormanHouse, you are both earning over £20k and get working tax credit
And you expect me to feel sorry for you!!!!
TWUNT
No, he said quite clearly he wasn't looking for sympathy.
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100% NOT SELLING Yamaha DTXplorer Module, 5x ddrum triggers, mesh heads and Yamaha E-cymbals. |
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MrNoisy
Advanced Contributer
9905 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 23:21:12
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These bastards are so worried that they are now going to be able to examine all your emails,text messages and facebook posts ....WHY are they so worried ....Bastards think it ok to give millionaires an extra £40,000 a year in tax cuts ....While at the same time move the boundaries for family's on workers tax credits so that thousands will not be eligible ....****S in the 1st degree ...We need to get them out and fast
RANT OVER
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If you don't like my outlook on life ...Then get one of your own |
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Bulldog123
Advanced Contributer
830 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 23:27:57
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quote:
Originally posted by OriginalAnimal
NormanHouse, you are both earning over £20k and get working tax credit
And you expect me to feel sorry for you!!!!
Feck off and get a life, I get £300 per month my wife's earning are down to 15 hours a week and you don't know that you've been born
TWUNT
I'm embarrassed for you.
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MrNoisy
Advanced Contributer
9905 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2012 : 23:34:33
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quote:
Originally posted by OriginalAnimal
NormanHouse, you are both earning over £20k and get working tax credit
And you expect me to feel sorry for you!!!!
Feck off and get a life, I get £300 per month my wife's earning are down to 15 hours a week and you don't know that you've been born
TWUNT
So it is OK for this lot to give millionaires an extra £40,000 a year whilst at the same time move the goal posts so that people on Workers Family Tax Credits will now have to work 24 hours a week to be able to claim ?..... That puts thousands of familys out of the system ....This is not fair at all 
If you cant see where this government is going then you need to go to spec savers
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If you don't like my outlook on life ...Then get one of your own |
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scoobydude
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2487 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2012 : 00:15:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Bulldog123
quote:
Originally posted by OriginalAnimal
NormanHouse, you are both earning over £20k and get working tax credit
And you expect me to feel sorry for you!!!!
Feck off and get a life, I get £300 per month my wife's earning are down to 15 hours a week and you don't know that you've been born
TWUNT
I'm embarrassed for you.
Indeed, in the race to the bottom you appear to be way out in front. Well done. |
www.scoobyband.com |
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moosetication
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12065 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2012 : 09:28:41
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quote:
Originally posted by NormanHouse
I want people to get angry with this shower of mendacious incompetents.
After the Blessed Maggie, I thought I could not possible get as angry about a government ever again.
I was wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. |
"It's just a rest, no need to complicate it with monkeys." - sunshinehead
SITMS #31/582 (B'ham) #31/798 (M'cr) | The Blue Road | Jive Honey |
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nick65
Advanced Contributer
1546 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2012 : 10:52:46
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quote:
Originally posted by moosetication
quote:
Originally posted by NormanHouse
I want people to get angry with this shower of mendacious incompetents.
After the Blessed Maggie, I thought I could not possible get as angry about a government ever again.
I was wrong. Completely and utterly wrong.
Likewise.Furthermore it gives me no pleasure to say that,quite the opposite I find it all very depressing. |
keep on keeping on...
Gretsch renown blue oil,8,10,12,14,22.
zildjian k mastersound14 hats,14,16,18 dark K's crashes,20K heavy ride.snares gretsch,ludwig,slingerland,yamaha,pearl mmmm. |
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NormanHouse
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
936 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 00:14:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Zimmo
I wouldn't put it quite as bluntly as that, but the same thought crossed my mind.
A combined income of over 40K AND tax credits sounds quite nice.....
'Child Tax Credit'. My error, not working 'Family Tax Credit', though I'm not sure what the difference is and the Government websites are their usual jargon filled maze of confusion.
Payable to ANYONE - are you listening Mr OriginalAnimal- who has a combined income of less than £50k until 1/4/12 when it will reduce to a combined income of £40k.
It's paid to hundreds of thousands of people who meet the criteria - which in essence is: must have a least one kid and work more than 16hrs per week.
I reiterate that I am absolutely not looking for sympathy - I'm aware that some posters have difficulty reading a plain English sentence and lapse into personal abuse and moronic judgments.
I'm still trying to think of a response which doesn't make me look as stupid as him. It's difficult. But I will try. |
"Gonna send you back to Walker" (Geordieland) |
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MrNoisy
Advanced Contributer
9905 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 00:28:34
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quote:
Originally posted by NormanHouse
quote:
Originally posted by Zimmo
I wouldn't put it quite as bluntly as that, but the same thought crossed my mind.
A combined income of over 40K AND tax credits sounds quite nice.....
'Child Tax Credit'. My error, not working 'Family Tax Credit', though I'm not sure what the difference is and the Government websites are their usual jargon filled maze of confusion.
Payable to ANYONE - are you listening Mr OriginalAnimal- who has a combined income of less than £50k until 1/4/12 when it will reduce to a combined income of £40k.
It's paid to hundreds of thousands of people who meet the criteria - which in essence is: must have a least one kid and work more than 16hrs per week.
I reiterate that I am absolutely not looking for sympathy - I'm aware that some posters have difficulty reading a plain English sentence and lapse into personal abuse and moronic judgments.
I'm still trying to think of a response which doesn't make me look as stupid as him. It's difficult. But I will try.
They have just changed it to 24 hours a week ...hence taking thousands of family's out of the system and back on the dole...whilst at the same time giving anyone who earns £150,000+ a year a nice tax tax reduction ....which equates to £40,000 a year if you earn a million pounds a year.
SO WHO IS THIS LOT WORKING FOR |
If you don't like my outlook on life ...Then get one of your own |
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MrNoisy
Advanced Contributer
9905 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 00:31:48
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I would like to know ...What is the difference between someone earning £150,000 a year and someone on family tax credits.
Apparently according to to government ...If you earn £150,000 a year you will create jobs and hence you get a nice tax break that means you can afford to live on a bit more than £1500 a week.
If your on family tax credits ...then you now have to work 24 hours a week to be eligible to even claim it .....It used to be 16 hours a week, this change has put thousands of familys out of tax credits and back on the dole.
SO just WHO is this government working for ?????
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If you don't like my outlook on life ...Then get one of your own |
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ian-40
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
6211 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 08:00:58
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I earn 22k a year, single, no kids, no help. pay for everything, pay tax on everything etc etc. how do you think i feel ?
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14638 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 08:12:17
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quote:
Originally posted by NormanHouse
......So have all my coworkers COLLEAGUES and many thousands more in the Public Sector.
I have never orked a cow and don't even know how to ork a cow. Such American habits are best left in America! If you cannot spell colleagues, work mates will do, or anything else that does not involve the orking of cows!
Like nick65 and moosetication, I am stunned that this ruthless and wicked bunch of mattress-stuffing PR-led Vogons has done far more damage than the Barking Baroness in 1/10 of the time. Truly stunned. Not a single POSITIVE policy, just slash and burn, plus pay increases for the super rich. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5232 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 09:41:23
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Apart from my apprenticeship I have been self employed my entire working life and have been kicked in the teeth on many occasions by successive Governments..you just get used to it.
£40K per year is not poverty line,with or without tax credits.
Raising and paying for kids has always been my problem..and we have loads of them! |
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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jimfisher
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
563 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 09:45:35
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No Cows Were Unwillingly Orked During This Post! A few went along with a bit of an orking, though, & they loved it.
Part of the problem is that Labour collapsed in on themselves, in a cloud of disgusting colonialism and deceit. I feel most angry about this, as I expect the Tories to behave as they are doing, only now there's no current credible alternative.
Thoroughly Orked, of Harrow
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www.sphere3.co.uk |
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NormanHouse
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
936 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 10:03:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Yard
Apart from my apprenticeship I have been self employed my entire working life and have been kicked in the teeth on many occasions by successive Governments..you just get used to it.
£40K per year is not poverty line,with or without tax credits.
Raising and paying for kids has always been my problem..and we have loads of them!
Presumably you were entitled to and claimed child allowance? Which is now being withdrawn by this Govt to many who have paid tax for decades. |
"Gonna send you back to Walker" (Geordieland) |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5232 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 10:19:04
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Yes the 3.50 helped out no end!
Child Allowance was the only form of tax rebate I have ever had in my whole working life and helped as we had our first at 17.
If you have a joint income of 40K I am not sure why the Govt is handing out credits.
40K is good money,but you may not think so as whatever someone earns is never enough but at least it is regular...mine is hit and miss.
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Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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JKDrummerDude
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
269 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 10:46:00
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quote:
Originally posted by ian-40
I earn 22k a year, single, no kids, no help. pay for everything, pay tax on everything etc etc. how do you think i feel ?
I'm in the same boat as you.
Singles help pay for families. We get nothing at all from either this government, nor the other governments before them. I find this complaining that handouts have been cut quite baffling.
I realise that families are a wonderful thing, but people complaining that they cost a lot make me cross. You wanted the family, then you should pay for it. Please explain why I as a tax payer should contribute to your children.
I already pay out loads, my rent is not cheaper than the same flat with a couple in it. My council tax does get a bonus of about 1/3 off. A couple therefore each pay considerably less than the amount I have to pay. I still pay all the taxes that everyone else has to pay. Oh yeah, I'm unlikely to get a marriage tax credit as a single person.
The thing that annoys me the most though is after all this and I want to go on holiday, I actually have to pay for my invisible friend if I want to go on my own. That's what the single person subsidy means.
You want to see a stealth tax? Become single...
I'd quite like to see a single person tax credit to offset the amount I have to pay for those people happily living together. I'd vote for the first person to claim to set that up...
On the original subject though - pay cuts are bad for anyone. You have my sympathy there. Money taken out for 'Not good value' sucks, and is clearly a lie, because if you were that poor value you'd lose your job entirely right? |
Yamaha Tour Custom 24, 12, 13, 16, 18, C&C Maple 22, 12,14,16 Yamaha DTXPress IV Special |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14638 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 10:52:47
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| Being single certainly is more expensive in so many ways, even food is relatively more expensive because you do not have the price advantage of buying in bulk. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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Grahame B
Advanced Contributer
Saint Helena
14861 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 11:25:07
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quote:
Originally posted by JKDrummerDude
quote:
Originally posted by ian-40
I earn 22k a year, single, no kids, no help. pay for everything, pay tax on everything etc etc. how do you think i feel ?
I'm in the same boat as you.
Singles help pay for families. We get nothing at all from either this government, nor the other governments before them. I find this complaining that handouts have been cut quite baffling.
I realise that families are a wonderful thing, but people complaining that they cost a lot make me cross. You wanted the family, then you should pay for it. Please explain why I as a tax payer should contribute to your children.
Because, since you have none of your own, it's highly likely that one day someone else's children will be treating your ailments, making sure the world is safe for you and quite possibly wiping your ar$e if you become too feeble to do it yourself.
Oh and assuming that you've been a child yourself. A lot of us tax payers have contributed to your early life too. |
http://tinyurl.com/r38zpn
Tempus Fudgit ( censored )
"You won't get a refund from me no matter how hard you try."
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rufusisdrumming
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
196 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 13:05:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Grahame B
quote:
Originally posted by JKDrummerDude
quote:
Originally posted by ian-40
I earn 22k a year, single, no kids, no help. pay for everything, pay tax on everything etc etc. how do you think i feel ?
I'm in the same boat as you.
Singles help pay for families. We get nothing at all from either this government, nor the other governments before them. I find this complaining that handouts have been cut quite baffling.
I realise that families are a wonderful thing, but people complaining that they cost a lot make me cross. You wanted the family, then you should pay for it. Please explain why I as a tax payer should contribute to your children.
Because, since you have none of your own, it's highly likely that one day someone else's children will be treating your ailments, making sure the world is safe for you and quite possibly wiping your ar$e if you become too feeble to do it yourself.
Oh and assuming that you've been a child yourself. A lot of us tax payers have contributed to your early life too.
But here your saying that to continue we need more people when in fact as is obvious from the current state of affairs there are far too many people. Grahames raising a very good point, you could say that child tax credits should work the other way round.
No children; top level credits
One; half,
two, none
and any more you will have to contribute more.
(I realise that is completely ridiculous idea but I think you get the point.) |
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beezerk
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
29127 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 13:13:07
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quote:
Originally posted by New Boy
My wife works for the DWP (No, not that one) no pay raise for last three years, so effectively she's probaly 15% worse off, possibly more as food etc has gone up a lot more. I earn decent money but because of that we'll not get any family allowance whilst people who earn more with their combined salary will continue to get it.
Aren't they changing the way family allowance is calculated so this type of situation doesn't happen any more? Swear I heard it mentioned on the radio recently. |
http://photobucket.com/albums/c41/beezerkdrums/
Let's go Eskimo! |
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mully
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
23896 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 13:18:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
Being single certainly is more expensive in so many ways, even food is relatively more expensive because you do not have the price advantage of buying in bulk.
You could quite easily buy in bulk and simply eat more, thus saving a considerable amount.
Stephen
Editor, Viz "Top Tips" |
MD Fount of All Wisdom for Life and Extraordinary Amusement Officer of the forum's Sonor Delite Appreciation Society.
"Jayz mully, you're like the Django of the internet!" - scottser on the Drumming Ireland forum |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14638 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 13:24:34
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| ^ Great idea, the savings I make will pay for the side panniers I will have to fit on my bicycle. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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monkeythedrummer
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
9184 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 13:42:41
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Families which have lots of children they can't pay for (or even if they can) are an issue at policy level. Problem is that choosing the size of your family is embedded in the UN constitution of human rights, and that any cuts primarily effect the child. Whilst you might think its not fair that unemployed couple have six children they don't pay for I'd argue that the state forcing those six children into poverty is also unfair.
However a rise is global population is not sustainable. The question is whether global population will level out, and then perhaps slowly decline before global disaster or policy will be needed to sort it out. I've heard voices from both camps and not convinced either way.
Regardless of global populations I'm not sure the UN right for every child to have a happy life and the UN right for any parent to have as many kids as they want can co-exist together..
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100% NOT SELLING Yamaha DTXplorer Module, 5x ddrum triggers, mesh heads and Yamaha E-cymbals. |
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NormanHouse
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
936 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 14:07:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Grahame B
quote:
Originally posted by JKDrummerDude
quote:
Originally posted by ian-40
I earn 22k a year, single, no kids, no help. pay for everything, pay tax on everything etc etc. how do you think i feel ?
I'm in the same boat as you.
Singles help pay for families. We get nothing at all from either this government, nor the other governments before them. I find this complaining that handouts have been cut quite baffling.
I realise that families are a wonderful thing, but people complaining that they cost a lot make me cross. You wanted the family, then you should pay for it. Please explain why I as a tax payer should contribute to your children.
Because, since you have none of your own, it's highly likely that one day someone else's children will be treating your ailments, making sure the world is safe for you and quite possibly wiping your ar$e if you become too feeble to do it yourself.
Oh and assuming that you've been a child yourself. A lot of us tax payers have contributed to your early life too.
Excellent point well made. Being single is not necessarily a terminal condition either. One day you might find yourself with a partner or kids. £7k a year for Childcare will put a big dent in that salary. |
"Gonna send you back to Walker" (Geordieland) |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5232 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 14:09:54
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The UN right of every child to be happy and the UN right to have as many kids as you like does not exist..
The right of every child to be happy should be determined by each adult prior to having kids.
They should ask themselves 'Am I capable of providing a stable,happy and financially secure environment for my family to the best of my knowledge?'
Too many feel it is their right to procreate without a second thought to the future welfare of their offspring as in "Jack The Lad' Rights.
A UN policy counts for nothing...morals do but then, they are passed down from one generation to another,which is where it falls apart? |
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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Grahame B
Advanced Contributer
Saint Helena
14861 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 14:27:15
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| Should the child suffer because their parent is an idiot ? |
http://tinyurl.com/r38zpn
Tempus Fudgit ( censored )
"You won't get a refund from me no matter how hard you try."
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5232 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 14:51:46
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| No child should suffer but as you can see in news reports from Syria..they do,so where is the UN! |
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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Grahame B
Advanced Contributer
Saint Helena
14861 Posts |
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dwpaddy
Advanced Contributer
Ireland
22529 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 15:26:05
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^^
Bit late now....... |
DWP
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Sean
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
594 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 21:12:59
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quote:
Originally posted by ian-40
I earn 22k a year, single, no kids, no help. pay for everything, pay tax on everything etc etc. how do you think i feel ?
You probably feel about £8000 beter than me Ian  |
Got it bad, Got it bad, Got it bad.........I'm Hot For Teacher! |
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JKDrummerDude
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
269 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2012 : 09:45:37
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quote:
Originally posted by NormanHouse
quote:
Originally posted by Grahame B
quote:
Originally posted by JKDrummerDude
quote:
Originally posted by ian-40
I earn 22k a year, single, no kids, no help. pay for everything, pay tax on everything etc etc. how do you think i feel ?
I'm in the same boat as you.
Singles help pay for families. We get nothing at all from either this government, nor the other governments before them. I find this complaining that handouts have been cut quite baffling.
I realise that families are a wonderful thing, but people complaining that they cost a lot make me cross. You wanted the family, then you should pay for it. Please explain why I as a tax payer should contribute to your children.
Because, since you have none of your own, it's highly likely that one day someone else's children will be treating your ailments, making sure the world is safe for you and quite possibly wiping your ar$e if you become too feeble to do it yourself.
Oh and assuming that you've been a child yourself. A lot of us tax payers have contributed to your early life too.
Excellent point well made. Being single is not necessarily a terminal condition either. One day you might find yourself with a partner or kids. £7k a year for Childcare will put a big dent in that salary.
Really? Child tax credits or Child benefit makes that much difference? The logical extension of this is that people make babies for money, which is not only distasteful, but also a loser, because I've not heard anyone mention that child benefit pays for everything a child requires. In fact most people tell me that children are really expensive.
As to the argument that these children will grow up to take care of me, then I guess its a reasonable point, but far more of those children won't take care of me. Or anyone else for that matter. I still get to contribute to those.
Having children implies a social responsibility for everyone else in society. You cannot swear in front of the kids. You get tax benefits for having kids. I was in a position when I was unemployed where my girlfriend at the time really wanted a child. We were both on benefits, and I didn't want to bring up a child in those circumstances. The world doesn't in fact owe you a living. You have to try and make your own way in it as best you can. Relying on others to make it easy for you is at best misguided and at worst irresponsible. |
Yamaha Tour Custom 24, 12, 13, 16, 18, C&C Maple 22, 12,14,16 Yamaha DTXPress IV Special |
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Grahame B
Advanced Contributer
Saint Helena
14861 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2012 : 10:04:52
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quote:
Originally posted by JKDrummerDude
As to the argument that these children will grow up to take care of me, then I guess its a reasonable point, but far more of those children won't take care of me. Or anyone else for that matter. I still get to contribute to those.
The ones not directly looking after you will be driving buses, working in Tesco, sweeping the roads, air traffic controllers, road menders... and will be moaning about paying taxes so that old duffers can get their ar$es wiped...
We have one child. We'd like another but can't afford for mrs B to stop work to have it - let alone the childcare costs for two.
Child benefit and tax credits don't pay for everything - not by a long shot. But it does take the edge off the worst of the costs.
What does feel like a slap in the face is that a lot of people are just managing to get by - to then be told that your small credits and working benefits are to be cut back - and yet millionaires will be better off by £40,000 a year...
We are not all in this together. |
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JKDrummerDude
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
269 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2012 : 10:19:56
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[/quote]
The ones not directly looking after you will be driving buses, working in Tesco, sweeping the roads, air traffic controllers, road menders... and will be moaning about paying taxes so that old duffers can get their ar$es wiped...
[/quote]
I also get to contribute to muggers, murderers, students who compete for my job, and people who are out of work and have no intention of getting into work. All of which I object to. |
Yamaha Tour Custom 24, 12, 13, 16, 18, C&C Maple 22, 12,14,16 Yamaha DTXPress IV Special |
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NormanHouse
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
936 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2012 : 11:59:34
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quote:
Originally posted by JKDrummerDude
The ones not directly looking after you will be driving buses, working in Tesco, sweeping the roads, air traffic controllers, road menders... and will be moaning about paying taxes so that old duffers can get their ar$es wiped...
[/quote]
I also get to contribute to muggers, murderers, students who compete for my job, and people who are out of work and have no intention of getting into work. All of which I object to.
[/quote]
The main aspect of living in a Liberal Democracy is that we all have to accept that there are things we have to pay for that we don't agree with. Could you really envisage a world with no tax? Would you want it?
I strongly object to having to contribute millions to a Throneseekers allowance to an unemployed family in London. What about £550 million quid for an Aircraft carrier with no Aircraft? Trident? Fuel Duty? Alchohol Unit? Tuition Fees?
The arguments are all about the distribution - I think you are wrong when you and others say "the world doesn't owe you a living". In fact the State does. Because they take thousands of pounds off us every month. Every time we shop, every time we drive.
It's a contract between citizen and State - I pay my Tax, the state provides Roads, Healthcare, Education and Law and Order.
I strongly object to phrases like 'Handouts' when it is in fact a 'Credit' which the cynical amongst us view as a way withholding a percentage of salary and imposing a criteria in order to claim.
I am in favour of a minimum salary - not a minimum wage. Say £18k?
Then there would be no need for these stupid schemes of Credits, Vouchers etc. which cost millions to administer.
Never happen with this lot of course - Most Tories still oppose the minimum wage, one of Labours' better Policies.
Cameron I see is at this very moment raiding dormant back accounts to set up a Charity commission. Big Society? |
"Gonna send you back to Walker" (Geordieland) |
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JKDrummerDude
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
269 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2012 : 16:11:52
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The contract you mention between state and citizen is being handled though isn't it? We have roads, we have the NHS, and we have a free education system. We also have a bunch of laws. I'm fine with taxes to pay for those. They might not be perfect, but they're never going to please everyone. Right now I'll accept a definition of 'everyone' as 'Most People'.
I'll accept a minimum salary idea once someone works out how that works for people not on full time employment, or working on their second job or whatever. I think that would be tougher to administer than the current system. Either way, if you change the system you'll probably find that someone else will turn around and state that it's another example of the government working for themselves.
I get your irritation at the word handout. I apologise for that. Mind you, we all get taxed, so Credit really appears to be a way to get more money in.
Tax credits were a Labour invention IIRC? Something the coalition are sort of stuck with, and trying to work out how to get the economy working again.
The thing I don't get is why people are surprised at the moment that the economy is a bit stagnant, and that this has a knock on effect on everything else. When Labour left power, it was the Labour Chancellour who left a note stating 'We're broke' wasn't it? With more or less every country now feeling the pinch of being utterly screwed by the financial markets, we're still better off than most in the UK. I'd hate to be Greek or Italian right now for example. So the boom years have gone, and we're a country in massive debt. We have to save cash somewhere in order to pay off that debt somehow.
I'm not sure that all the coalition ideas are working right now, I'm pretty disgusted at the way the budget hit the pensioners for example, but I'm happy to give it a chance and see how it goes, because I look at the economy and I see a collosal mess, created by several governments. I haven't heard anything from anyone that looks like a fix for the mess the whole world appears to be in right now, so it really is a case of batten down the hatches and try to get by. Sooner or later things will pick up.
That might seem overly optimistic really, but to get all cynical makes me so angry I stop thinking at all. I can save myself all kinds of stress this way. |
Yamaha Tour Custom 24, 12, 13, 16, 18, C&C Maple 22, 12,14,16 Yamaha DTXPress IV Special |
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