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benjisonfire
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
4837 Posts |
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jimfisher
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
563 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2012 : 22:44:46
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Amazing group! That whole album is extraordinary. I think he uses a 'bop kit' , i.e. 18 kick, 12 rack, 14 floor tom, but unlike a lot of 'jazz' groups (yes I'm sponsored by 'Apostrophe' - The Mark Of A 'Man') they use compression & distortion on the drums. I could be wrong about absolutely everything, but it's my current £0.02.
J. |
www.sphere3.co.uk |
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Spart
Advanced Contributer
649 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 22:50:19
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Saw them at London Jazz Fest 2004ish. Had a chat afterwards au foyer, lovely guy Mr King.
Pretty sure he was an Eames user at the time.
A lot of it is in the production. Mind you I have a live to air recording from Pizza Xpress from around the same time, sounds fantastic too.
Spart |
Scouring the known universe for... A 14x14 Premier floor in Silver Star. |
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DaveP
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
895 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 23:00:26
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What is 'an Eames user' ?
My guess would be an old American 'bop' kit, Istanbul hats
BTW not heard of them - interesting stuff, and Dave Kings ramblings here http://www.daveking.net/index.html are entertaining |
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reversebembe
Very Active Contributer
United Kingdom
93 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 23:13:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Spart
A lot of it is in the production. Mind you I have a live to air recording from Pizza Xpress from around the same time, sounds fantastic too.
Spart
sounds interesting, was this an official release for the band ?
wouldn't mind hearing it, I only have their studio release
I saw them a few years ago, a drummer having fun, fine improviser
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benjisonfire
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
4837 Posts |
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Spart
Advanced Contributer
649 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 23:36:25
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Errr not official.
Had a friend working at R3, who did most of the broadcast stuff for the festival.
Eames are an American custom maker:
http://www.eamesdrumshells.com/index.html
Spart |
Scouring the known universe for... A 14x14 Premier floor in Silver Star. |
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Tex
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1585 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 23:45:05
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| Sounds like rods of some sort (wood?). Thin shelled (copper?) fairly loose and very gently hit. Lot of air so the mic's probably high in the room. Very light damping (masking tape rather than gaffa) or light studio gating maybe as the sound dies quickly. |
Sitting on top of the mountain isn't the most interesting bit of the climb. Sitting at the bottom aint much fun either. |
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Dave S
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5359 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 00:11:15
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The bass drum sound's not too difficult to achieve.
On my 18" New Classic, I use the stock reso with a Coated Remo Ambassador batter with a strip of felt. The batter a mid-ish tuning, you can push the head in a fair bit with the beater, but it's not super loose. The reso is med-high. |
davesmyth.co.uk | soundcloud | facebook | twitter |
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lee haydn
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2035 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 01:30:00
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| Agree the bass drum sounds good, it sounds like he's playing the snare without the snares engaged, i'm not into that genre of music at all though, |
Ludwig Maple Classic (Green Sparkle) + L400
Sabian HH and Paiste Stanbul vintage
Pro' Racket |
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Moresushinow
Very Active Contributer
Brazil
119 Posts |
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benjisonfire
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
4837 Posts |
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drumanorak
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
372 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 09:25:03
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Pretty sure I saw him using a gretsch new classic jazz Kit in glass nitron in one of the drum mag interviews a couple of years back.
And there is a video clip on the Bp site of him using it. |
Im not deaf..........pardon!!! |
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Steevo114
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
359 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 09:45:44
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quote:
Originally posted by benjisonfire
this is pretty weird, i just stumbled on their rider... have a look... interesting if your not used to that sort of detail!
I think the link was missing but I found it
http://www.imnworld.com/uploads/TBP_WEB_RIDER_4.11.09.pdf
I love reading these. I'm kind of amazed by the demands as usual. I guess it's just normal.
There goes the idea of the struggling Jazz Artiste putting up with sleeping in the van and living on boiled rice and whiskey.LOL
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Perception is all |
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DyeHouseDrumWorks
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
185 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 09:50:30
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Snares off and lots of compression.
It sounds like, having listened through a few of their tracks, that playing with compression comes into play extensively in creating the drum sound's variation. Some tracks have heavily compressed kick - others it's on the snare. This technique brings out the room sound more too, especially so with the distance mic capture on these recordings.
Classic basic jazz kit IMO: pretty tight, open tuning with small drums all round. |
Dye House Drum Works. Find us on Facebook and at at: www.dyehousedrumworks.com |
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jamoca
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12486 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 10:15:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Steevo114
quote:
Originally posted by benjisonfire
this is pretty weird, i just stumbled on their rider... have a look... interesting if your not used to that sort of detail!
I think the link was missing but I found it
http://www.imnworld.com/uploads/TBP_WEB_RIDER_4.11.09.pdf
I love reading these. I'm kind of amazed by the demands as usual. I guess it's just normal.
There goes the idea of the struggling Jazz Artiste putting up with sleeping in the van and living on boiled rice and whiskey.LOL
On page 5..
"c. One (1) 16” floor tom w/ COATED EMPEROR HEAD on both sides. If Emperor Head is not
available, please provide a 14” floor tom with coated Ambassador heads. No emperor heads on
a 16” floor tom! The floor tom MUST be on legs, never on a stand. (Clear heads, Powerstroke heads
or muffled heads will not be accepted under any circumstances)"
Eh?!  |
Edible Goody Consumption Officer and Parallel Parking Specialist of the forum's Sonor Delite appreciation society
Personal roistering assistant to Mr Bob Dobalina and (nearly) undisputed Curry King |
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monkeythedrummer
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
9184 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 10:23:16
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Why is it riders nearly always make bands seem like dicks?
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100% NOT SELLING Yamaha DTXplorer Module, 5x ddrum triggers, mesh heads and Yamaha E-cymbals. |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5234 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 11:56:49
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New band and American!!
Spot it a mile off! |
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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irish_steve
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2872 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 12:29:01
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So they have a tour bus but don't have their own instruments? I can sort of understand not bringing a grand piano around with them, but requiring the venue to provide the drum kit, upright bass and 20 mics?
Is this typical? |
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Dave S
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5359 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 12:41:13
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quote:
Originally posted by irish_steve
So they have a tour bus but don't have their own instruments? I can sort of understand not bringing a grand piano around with them, but requiring the venue to provide the drum kit, upright bass and 20 mics?
Is this typical?
Not for smaller, less know bands, but TBP are pretty well established now and are very well regarded.
Given the types of venues that TBP would be playing at and the kind of crowd they would draw I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect the venue to provide the kit and bass. An easy way around this for jazzers is to do a workshop in a local music college and borrow students' gear - that's pretty standard. |
davesmyth.co.uk | soundcloud | facebook | twitter |
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Tex
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1585 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2012 : 16:32:22
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quote:
Originally posted by irish_steve
So they have a tour bus but don't have their own instruments? I can sort of understand not bringing a grand piano around with them, but requiring the venue to provide the drum kit, upright bass and 20 mics?
Is this typical?
Common in Europe and probably the rest of the world too where they treat musicians differently to the low-paid / unpaid English musical slavery scene we know so well. At least for the last thirty years. The UK doesn't yet realise it's been a banana republic since the last WW. |
Sitting on top of the mountain isn't the most interesting bit of the climb. Sitting at the bottom aint much fun either. |
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MrNoisy
Advanced Contributer
9905 Posts |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5234 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2012 : 08:53:43
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Riders have to be specific or mistakes are made when it is too late to rectify them.
We have kits supplied in each venue abroad for clinics so it has to be right.
Heads,Tom diameter & depth,how they are mounted,BD depth etc etc.
The dressing room rider is another animal.
Some still include cigarettes.I had a request at a festival for a certain brand of spirit for a well known artist.The runner had a look round many shops wasting time before admitting defeat.
"We can't get that bottle of stuff for you"
"Oh thats ok we know its hard to find,just get the other type"
Eyes raised to the sky as I trot back to the Production Office thinking d**k |
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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thumpbop
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
165 Posts |
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Twotoms
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
759 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2012 : 23:10:08
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I spoke to Ethan Iverson ( the bass player ) after a gig last year and he said he gets a different upright bass for almost every gig - just taking his pickup around with him. He enjoyed the challenge of each different instrument which could often make him play something new.
David K uses a variety of different items on his snare to change / dampen the sound, such as towels and small splash cymbals.... |
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crafty
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
7748 Posts |
Posted - 13/04/2012 : 00:22:39
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| SSL have a free talkback mic compressor plug-in on their website. To get a raw drum sound, I use this whilst driving the drums through a Bassman amp sim. The plug-ins just roughen up the edges without destroying the source sound. The compressor just sucks up the air around the drums and the amp sim acts more as an eq rather than an overdrive. Ed. |
Super cool - and bongos too!
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Mmurder
New Contributer
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 15/04/2012 : 01:12:02
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| Reid Anderson is the bassist in The Bad Plus. Ethan plays piano. There's a new movie out about Dave King for those interested. It's called King For Two Days. www.kingfortwodays.com Very enjoyable and worth checking out. |
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drumtuningworkshops
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
342 Posts |
Posted - 15/04/2012 : 21:42:56
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Hey Benji, I don't know the track Chariots...but do check out Chad Blake as a producer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tchad_Blake
and the recording technique on the album GIVE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording
I've spent many a moment thinking about these sounds...the heads...the shells...the way the drum is struck...
and this technique is an amazing way of viewing the sound of drums in a new light...in other words it's not just about compression. Blake is a genius and King is a genius and the result still leaves me dead...you sound as though your head is inside the drums!
On this album, the bass and snare sounds are "slack"...allowing maximum head play and so plenty of frequencies and plenty of air movement...maybe they're single ply heads...can never really tell on a recording!
Great band. |
PMT Brum June 8th/PMT Leeds 15th June/Drumstop June 22nd/Drum Depot 5+6th July |
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crafty
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
7748 Posts |
Posted - 15/04/2012 : 23:06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by drumtuningworkshops
Hey Benji, I don't know the track Chariots...but do check out Chad Blake as a producer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tchad_Blake
and the recording technique on the album GIVE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording
I've spent many a moment thinking about these sounds...the heads...the shells...the way the drum is struck...
and this technique is an amazing way of viewing the sound of drums in a new light...in other words it's not just about compression. Blake is a genius and King is a genius and the result still leaves me dead...you sound as though your head is inside the drums!
On this album, the bass and snare sounds are "slack"...allowing maximum head play and so plenty of frequencies and plenty of air movement...maybe they're single ply heads...can never really tell on a recording!
Great band.
Good call! I first ran into Tchad's wonderful sound shaping on the early Ron Sexsmith records. Him and Mitchell Froom were a such a great pairing of engineer/producer. Last thing I heard was Tchad was holed up at Realworld by that was sometime ago. His approach is just wonderful - recording sounds through pre-cut lengths of tube and employing cheesy limiters like Shure's 'Level-Loc' and such-like.
You may wish to look here..
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/search.php?searchid=46589620
...it's Tchad thread search, so there may be some answers there.
Here's great tune that Tchad was involved in. Wonderful treatment on the drums..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAe4DGcEY_o
Ed |
Super cool - and bongos too!
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GoatStarer
Advanced Contributer
Antigua and Barbuda
14235 Posts |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5234 Posts |
Posted - 16/04/2012 : 12:54:51
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You will never re-create the sound as you need all the right ingredients and that includes the original player and the way that he strikes the drum.
You will only chase your tail.. |
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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benjisonfire
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
4837 Posts |
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Dave S
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5359 Posts |
Posted - 16/04/2012 : 17:57:03
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quote:
Originally posted by benjisonfire
if you like a sound I dont see the problem with trying to get close to it...
Too right... |
davesmyth.co.uk | soundcloud | facebook | twitter |
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drumtuningworkshops
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
342 Posts |
Posted - 16/04/2012 : 21:18:07
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quote:
Originally posted by crafty
quote:
Originally posted by drumtuningworkshops
Hey Benji, I don't know the track Chariots...but do check out Chad Blake as a producer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tchad_Blake
and the recording technique on the album GIVE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording
I've spent many a moment thinking about these sounds...the heads...the shells...the way the drum is struck...
and this technique is an amazing way of viewing the sound of drums in a new light...in other words it's not just about compression. Blake is a genius and King is a genius and the result still leaves me dead...you sound as though your head is inside the drums!
On this album, the bass and snare sounds are "slack"...allowing maximum head play and so plenty of frequencies and plenty of air movement...maybe they're single ply heads...can never really tell on a recording!
Great band.
Good call! I first ran into Tchad's wonderful sound shaping on the early Ron Sexsmith records. Him and Mitchell Froom were a such a great pairing of engineer/producer. Last thing I heard was Tchad was holed up at Realworld by that was sometime ago. His approach is just wonderful - recording sounds through pre-cut lengths of tube and employing cheesy limiters like Shure's 'Level-Loc' and such-like.
You may wish to look here..
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/search.php?searchid=46589620
...it's Tchad thread search, so there may be some answers there.
Here's great tune that Tchad was involved in. Wonderful treatment on the drums..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAe4DGcEY_o
Ed
Great links...thanks! |
PMT Brum June 8th/PMT Leeds 15th June/Drumstop June 22nd/Drum Depot 5+6th July |
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