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djohnson1974
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
406 Posts |
 Posted - 25/04/2012 : 21:50:18
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Just wondered is it normal to include practice kit adjustment in the lesson time? Sat at the kit for my lesson tonight (bearing in mind I'm 6'6" tall) and it must have last been played by a 6 year old, took 10 minutes of my lesson time to get it set up!
Then my teacher, the cheeky fecker, said he couldn't stand the 10" tom sounding so rubbish and spent a further 5 mins tuning it.
15 minutes out of an hour lesson before I even struck a drum, not a happy chappy tonight  |
"Can you count to 4? Then you're in the band!" |
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dibs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2012 : 21:57:31
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| No. I wouldn't be happy about that one bit. A couple of minutes to change over between students (and certainly no more than 5) should be adequate. That said I've always been pragmatic about trying to play my teachers kit as it is set up (with minor adjustments to snare and hi hat height). Whilst in an ideal world you'd always play a kit that was ergonomically perfect for your stature it's just not practical in a teaching environment with a flow of back to back students and if it was you who requested the changes to the set up then I would rethink whether or not you could get by with more minor adjustments in future - it's more important that your own kit be set up to your ideal as that's where you'll spend time practising. |
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Drumheduk
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
292 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2012 : 22:08:48
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| Sounds terrible, if he really couldn't stand the sound then the re-tune should be on his time plus what th heck was he doing whilst you were doing the adjustments? |
Yamaha MCAN,DW Hardware, Sabian, Pro rac
www.deloreanband.co.uk
www.facebook.com/pages/The-Dragsters |
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logic_user99
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
10127 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 09:21:28
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When I was teaching, I never factored tuning/set up time into the lesson. It only take a minute to reset the kit to a suitable level of playability which the tutor should do as you are coming into the room.
Don't stand for it, Dave! |
Drums | Cymbals | Sticks
"Starting my professional life from scratch..." |
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djohnson1974
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
406 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 09:40:56
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| Having slept on it I really do feel disappointed about last nights lesson and feel I ought to let my teacher know how I feel but don't want to make things awkward. Those of you that teach, have you had such feedback on a session, how was it communicated and did you welcome such feedback? |
"Can you count to 4? Then you're in the band!" |
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Bhavdrums
Very Active Contributer
United Kingdom
131 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 09:50:32
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Do Yourself a favour DJ! Get rid of that teacher you should have told him then and there that tuning is not part of the lesson, remember your paying him! You must look at it this way your the customer.
When looking for a drum teacher make sure they teach more or less on a full-time basis and they actually care about there students progession. Sounds like to me your teacher just wants the money.
I would suggest you have a Skype chat if you can with Rich Wilson on this forum, he will be able to give you great advise on getting a teacher even if you can't study with him.
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Bhavesh |
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moosetication
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12063 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 09:59:06
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quote:
Originally posted by djohnson1974
Having slept on it I really do feel disappointed about last nights lesson and feel I ought to let my teacher know how I feel but don't want to make things awkward. Those of you that teach, have you had such feedback on a session, how was it communicated and did you welcome such feedback?
I've had nothing negative, but I regularly solicit feedback (the younger players I try to make sure they feel that they can talk to their folks who can then bring things up with me). Equally, I'd expect someone to raise an issue in a sensible fashion. Just tell him straight, without aggression or emotion, that you're unhappy at losing half your lesson time to non-productive activity.
I have five minutes between lessons at home. This allows wiggle room for things like late arrivals, over-runs, kit adjustment, or grabbing cups of tea. |
"It's just a rest, no need to complicate it with monkeys." - sunshinehead
SITMS #31/582 (B'ham) #31/798 (M'cr) | The Blue Road | Jive Honey |
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thebeaver
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1837 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 10:10:35
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How come it took 10 minutes? Who was setting the kit up, you or teach? Shouldnt take more than 2 or 3 minutes no matter what state it's in - 4 minutes if you have to change from right to left handed etc...
If it was the teacher thats a poor effort, but if it was you, my advice would be to get the teacher to spend some time showing you how to set the kit up properly - 10 minutes is ridiculous.
As for the tuning thats happened to me before - but i realize that this person's paying me to teach, so I incorporate that into the lesson if they're willing. Explain what I dont like about the sound, what i want it to sound like and what im doing to fix it, let them have a go etc... Then at leased they're learning something valuable and useful durin the time. |
Tunbridge Wells Music School
www.twmusicschool.com |
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halfDeadMuffinMan
Very Active Contributer
United Kingdom
95 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 10:23:39
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| Tell your teacher. If you have a good relationship with him it may be that he hasn't thought of that time lost as a problem. I've done it before, where i've been friendly with a student and ended up spending half the lesson chatting with them instead of teaching. I've been brought up on it once before and although I was upset, I understood and needed it said to keep me focussed. I'm sure your teacher will take the comment as it's intended. |
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djohnson1974
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
406 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 10:41:59
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quote:
Originally posted by halfDeadMuffinMan
Tell your teacher. If you have a good relationship with him it may be that he hasn't thought of that time lost as a problem. I've done it before, where i've been friendly with a student and ended up spending half the lesson chatting with them instead of teaching. I've been brought up on it once before and although I was upset, I understood and needed it said to keep me focussed. I'm sure your teacher will take the comment as it's intended.
Thats the sort of relationship we have and I do think sometimes we spend too much time talking and not enough time do-ing. Thats why drum setup take too long as we are often having a catch up whilst doing it. |
"Can you count to 4? Then you're in the band!" |
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Dave S
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5359 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 10:50:35
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If I was giving that lesson and had to start late for whatever reason, I would run over the end of the lesson to make it up or schedule for another time. I'm not a fan of clock watching from either teachers or students and I frequently overrun a bit with all of my pupils and try where possible to accomodate for late arrivals. Sometimes you have to finish dead on or in slightly less than an hour, though and it's a give and take thing - I realise this is a slightly different situation but thought that's important to mention.
If this has only happened once and you're happy with everything else with your teacher, I certainly wouldn't be looking for a new teacher, just follow moose's advice.
quote:
Originally posted by Bhavdrums
When looking for a drum teacher make sure they teach more or less on a full-time basis and they actually care about there students progession.
How does this possible provide any sort of check that the teacher is good and cares about their student's progress? I'm sure there are probably many teachers who have full books who might not meet the mark on perhaps one or both of these points? |
davesmyth.co.uk | soundcloud | facebook | twitter |
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mike dolbear
Administrator
1630 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 11:00:49
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I think your being a little tough on the teacher.
1st: As some of my students on here will tell you there is not much to change on my kit maybe the snare hight or drum throne — so 10 minutes ouch that is some time
2nd: I have a 5 minute gap in between each student, this time is to let the next student warm uo and get comfortable while I make them a drink and clear my head.
3rd: Not sure what level you are but some times talking is good, I have learnt so much from so many drum drummers just from talking.
But the most important thing here djohnson is having a relationship with your drum teacher and trusting him in what he is teaching you if you have that you should be able to talk to him about anything if not find a new teacher.
When I studied with Max Abrams he was not even in the same room half the time but I knew he was around and I knew I was in very good hands.
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14621 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 11:12:21
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^ I had no idea you studied with Max! I too had lessons with him at his home near Kings Road, at the same time as Stewart Copeland who I sometimes encountered there.
I think set up time is acceptable if there is talk or inter-action of some sort, but I think time out for tuning is a bit unfair, I would be inclined to just quickly slap on some Moongel or Blu Tak to reduce the unpleasantness. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5231 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 11:15:29
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Just mention it to him but I have to say that in ten minutes we set up the entire backline for a stadium band (well,12 minutes).
As for tuning the tom,I am not sure whose job that is but I would like to think that it is his responsibility to provide a kit tuned.
Don't make a big deal out of it unless he's not a good teacher.
Its not about how much you cram into an hour but the productive advice offered during your time there?
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Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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thebeaver
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1837 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 11:25:26
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quote:
Originally posted by mike dolbear
3rd: Not sure what level you are but some times talking is good, I have learnt so much from so many drum drummers just from talking.
Yup, some of the best lessons i've ever had, and lessons where i've learned the most and been most inspired, I've hardly even help a pair of sticks!
of course if depends what you're discussing! |
Tunbridge Wells Music School
www.twmusicschool.com |
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djohnson1974
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
406 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 12:00:54
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I don't want to be unfair on my teacher, I've been having lessons for quite a while now have progressed rapidly and often leave buzzing with excitement at going away to practice what I've learned in the lesson. Last night was a different kit in the practice room, it didn't have a middle tom and needed a lot of setting up. I never really was comfortable on the kit all lesson and as a consequence didn't play very well which resulted in negative comments and really knocked my confidence.
I got a little frustrated as it is surely the teachers responsibility to have an appropriate size kit setup and ready requiring just some minor tweaking. The tuning incident just frustrated me further.
i agree about talking being incredibly important but it does depend on the subject matter and the balance of talking and doing, I am a kinesthetic learner and if I don't do it in the lesson I won't remember it.
I think it was a combination of a few things last night that just culminated in a disappointing session the overriding fact is that I don't like feeling like I've wasted time and money which last night I did.
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"Can you count to 4? Then you're in the band!" |
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djohnson1974
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
406 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 12:19:54
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Sorry folks,
On reflection I know this is really trivial and a lot of people have got proper issues to worry about but it kept me awake last night and it really helps just to know I've shared my thoughts and frustrations with other.
Thanks for your comments |
"Can you count to 4? Then you're in the band!" |
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Bhavdrums
Very Active Contributer
United Kingdom
131 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 12:51:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave S
If I was giving that lesson and had to start late for whatever reason, I would run over the end of the lesson to make it up or schedule for another time. I'm not a fan of clock watching from either teachers or students and I frequently overrun a bit with all of my pupils and try where possible to accomodate for late arrivals. Sometimes you have to finish dead on or in slightly less than an hour, though and it's a give and take thing - I realise this is a slightly different situation but thought that's important to mention.
If this has only happened once and you're happy with everything else with your teacher, I certainly wouldn't be looking for a new teacher, just follow moose's advice.
quote:
Originally posted by Bhavdrums
When looking for a drum teacher make sure they teach more or less on a full-time basis and they actually care about there students progession.
How does this possible provide any sort of check that the teacher is good and cares about their student's progress? I'm sure there are probably many teachers who have full books who might not meet the mark on perhaps one or both of these points?
Yes Dave S you are right I guess I was writing out what I felt from personal experiences with some drum teachers I have had some absoultley awful ones. I remember my first drum teacher who was quite local to me at the time, I would knock on his door and one of his housemates would answer the door saying he was not at home!
I had already booked the lesson with him and confirmed it this happened a few times but because I was so hooked on drumming at the time I kept going back.
What I would say in my opinion there is a lot of Mickey Mouse drum teachers out there who want to make a quick buck to supplement there income when they are not playing gigs, this is where drum teaching has completley gone down the pan.
This is why again in my opinion, I now look for that drum teacher with a reputation for teaching, and one who teaches more or less full time. I would also ask the questions such as what experience do they have? For example there any many drum tutors out there that that say they can teach all styles, but lets be honest there are very few who can teach all styles.
I would rather a teacher said " Look I am more of a rock drummer I can't teach you how to play Jazz, but I can recomend someone for you" now that would gain my respect of that teacher. Again this is all my opinion.
Going back to djs point he has absoultley every right to be fustrated if his drum teacher is tuning the drums in a middle of a lesson sorry but that is not acceptable to me, remember your paying that teacher to make a living out of what he does. So dj please do talk to your drum tutor about this, other than that you have said you have a good relationship with him and you have progressed with your teacher, so I hope you can sort this minor problem out and enjoy your drumming.
Sorry if I am being negative in my posts, but its the expereinces I have been through and hopefully someone reading my posts can pick up some tips regarding getting a good drum tutor who will actually help them reach there goals.
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Bhavesh |
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Dave S
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5359 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 13:29:33
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Sorry to hear about your experience Bhavdrums!
I think the thing is if you're looking for a (new) teacher, it's a good idea to have some ideas about what you want to achieve with them and that should help you in your choice as to who might be most appropriate. Mike hit the nail on the head in regards to the key being a good relationship between student/teacher. In my, perhaps very fortunate, experience of being a student across a range of instruments, I have found my teachers more than willing on several occasions to recommend other people for areas of music that they do not have particular expertise in. Perhaps I've just been very lucky?
Anyway, I digress...
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davesmyth.co.uk | soundcloud | facebook | twitter |
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thebeaver
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1837 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 13:39:38
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Bhavdrums - I might just be getting tied up in your wording a bit and maybe it's not exactly what you mean, but I had to mention it. You keep saying get someone who "teaches full time". I would actually argue against that. What you need is someone who is a full time musician. With a couple of exceptions like Bob Armstrong etc... who have been there and done it all and now teach full time, if your teacher isn't out there playing and gigging a decent amount I would question how much they have to teach you. Why are they not getting gigs?
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Tunbridge Wells Music School
www.twmusicschool.com |
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Bhavdrums
Very Active Contributer
United Kingdom
131 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 14:52:21
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quote:
Originally posted by thebeaver
Bhavdrums - I might just be getting tied up in your wording a bit and maybe it's not exactly what you mean, but I had to mention it. You keep saying get someone who "teaches full time". I would actually argue against that. What you need is someone who is a full time musician. With a couple of exceptions like Bob Armstrong etc... who have been there and done it all and now teach full time, if your teacher isn't out there playing and gigging a decent amount I would question how much they have to teach you. Why are they not getting gigs?
Yes Mike, I am probably not explaining myself properly but you are right of course a good drum tutor needs to be playing some gigs, you need someone who can teach you how to play music not just the drums!
I would also say however does a fantastic drummer/musician make a fantastic drum tutor? This is always questionable there might be some teachers out there who might not have tons of gig expereince but, just know how to teach really well. In my opionion there is always two sides to the coin.
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Bhavesh |
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WendyB
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5646 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 17:00:07
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| Whatever the lesson was like, look at the discussion it has created. There's plenty to take away here for tutors and students. You should have a good rapport with your tutor though, and as adults be able to talk about a situation like this. Mention it at your next lesson and he may well give you some extra time to compensate. |
I am No 5
www.wearefullyloaded.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ AND www.unforgivenmusic.co.uk
Honorary Forum Cupcake Baker. Nomnomnomnom. |
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djohnson1974
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
406 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 20:04:42
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UPDATE:
Contacted teacher tonight who agreed that lesson had been rubbish and apologised promising to get the kit sorted before we start the next session. Really glad I brought it up and cleared the air.
Thanks for all the advice folks. |
"Can you count to 4? Then you're in the band!" |
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MarkMooch
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1409 Posts |
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MarkMooch
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1409 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2012 : 01:16:20
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quote:
Originally posted by WendyB
Whatever the lesson was like, look at the discussion it has created. There's plenty to take away here for tutors and students. You should have a good rapport with your tutor though, and as adults be able to talk about a situation like this. Mention it at your next lesson and he may well give you some extra time to compensate.
'Like' |
Drummer & Educator in N.E. England.
www.MarkRichardsonDrums.com
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