| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Twotoms
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
754 Posts |
 Posted - 29/04/2012 : 19:56:36
|
For a while we've been asking, both here and on other cymbal forums, as to whether TOSCOs were rotocast or not.
I've just bagged an "8 page TOSCO brochure in full colour describing cymbal range and manufacturing process.", so as soon as I get it. I'll put some scans up for all to see.
Perhaps that will answer some of our questions?
Watch this space.......
|
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2012 : 16:28:02
|
I have a Tosco catalogue but it is in German but no mention of the actual casting process.
Most but not all of the Tosco cymbals i have seen have been Rotocast. On one of the occasions i was at Ufip in Pistoia i asked Luigi Tronci if Tosco used the Rotocasting process, he said no and quickly changed the subject. I think there is an untold story between the two companies of which i have a little insight. I suppose being small companies business is business and if Tosco asked for Rotocast blanks Ufip would have sold them.
I doubt Tosco would have invested in Rotocasting machines as Ufip held the patents for the process unless Bob Zildjian funded such a thing and they kept quiet about, guess we'll never know for sure.
It will be interesting to see what the catalogue says when it arrives. |
Resonators and Ufips....just beautiful. www.vintageolympic.co.uk
Rotocasting is definitely the pinnacle of cymbal manufacture!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheUFIPCYMBALS
|
 |
|
|
Jon Petersen
Advanced Contributer
Denmark
1767 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 13:20:35
|
I thought it was Zanki who invented the Rotocasting process? So, as long as Zanki existed, if Tosco got blanks from somebody, it would´ve been from Zanki.
The Toscos I have had (not many) felt and looked a lot like my Zankis. If there was a difference, it was the hammering.
Jon |
I TRY to tell myself I already have what I want..... |
|
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 17:50:25
|
Yes Jon it was the Zanchi brothers who invented the Rotocasting machines but as far as i know the machines were installed in the Ufip foundry possibly as Zanki didn't have space but they got their blanks from Ufip and worked on them in their own workshop.
Standing next to a Rotocasting machine watching molten bronze being poured in and seconds later a cymbal casting complete with bell being lifted out is quite impressive.
When Zanki folded in 1992 the brothers went to work at Ufip before retiring.
They changed the name to Zanki for the cymbals as it was easier to pronounce. |
Resonators and Ufips....just beautiful. www.vintageolympic.co.uk
Rotocasting is definitely the pinnacle of cymbal manufacture!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheUFIPCYMBALS
|
|
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 17:54:59
|
| Having studied my German Tosco catalogue there is a picture of a cymbal casting but it looks as if the bronze has been poured into a vertical mould which i think was the way Ufip did things prior to Rotocasting. I'll try and scan the picture and translate the blurb. |
Resonators and Ufips....just beautiful. www.vintageolympic.co.uk
Rotocasting is definitely the pinnacle of cymbal manufacture!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheUFIPCYMBALS
|
|
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2012 : 18:27:45
|
"The blank Tosco cymbals are a alloy of tin and copper that is cast in a form already contains all the sounds of rolling qualified did the one with the name Tosco master link in the further processing of the pool brings out these characteristics sound typical of Tosco cymbals".
Not quite sure if Google translator got it right!
Below is a scan of the Tosco blank taken from the catalogue.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/drumdmc/scan0001.jpg
|
Resonators and Ufips....just beautiful. www.vintageolympic.co.uk
Rotocasting is definitely the pinnacle of cymbal manufacture!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheUFIPCYMBALS
|
|
|
|
dogface
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 09:46:42
|
| Those bits sticking out at the bottom look like a by-product of conventional gravity casting rather than rotocasting to me. |
|
|
|
teethmeister
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
939 Posts |
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
|
|
Twotoms
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
754 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 20:34:00
|
Are you concluding that they're rotocast by the swirly catherine-wheel effect on the bell?
Most, if not all of mine have that, and it's visible through the grooved lathing pattern.
Hopefully the brochure will arrive tomorrow and I can get scanning. |
|
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2012 : 22:03:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by Twotoms
Are you concluding that they're rotocast by the swirly catherine-wheel effect on the bell?
Most, if not all of mine have that, and it's visible through the grooved lathing pattern.
Hopefully the brochure will arrive tomorrow and I can get scanning.
Yes that is the tell tale sign. |
Resonators and Ufips....just beautiful. www.vintageolympic.co.uk
Rotocasting is definitely the pinnacle of cymbal manufacture!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheUFIPCYMBALS
|
|
|
|
teethmeister
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
939 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 10:03:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by drumdmc
quote:
Originally posted by Twotoms
Are you concluding that they're rotocast by the swirly catherine-wheel effect on the bell?
Most, if not all of mine have that, and it's visible through the grooved lathing pattern.
Hopefully the brochure will arrive tomorrow and I can get scanning.
Yes that is the tell tale sign.
I used to believe this too. Until I produced it myself while lathing non roto-cast cymbals. I think there's a correlation, but not necessarily a causal link between the two! Next time it happens, I'll have to take a photo. |
http://www.mattnolancustom.com/ |
|
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 14:18:25
|
| I have seen similar markings on some Chinese made cymbals although not as uniform as a Rotocast cymbal. I thought they might be caused by the blank being turned each time it went through the rolling mill but that was a guess on my part. |
Resonators and Ufips....just beautiful. www.vintageolympic.co.uk
Rotocasting is definitely the pinnacle of cymbal manufacture!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheUFIPCYMBALS
|
|
|
|
teethmeister
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
939 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 15:48:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by drumdmc
I have seen similar markings on some Chinese made cymbals although not as uniform as a Rotocast cymbal. I thought they might be caused by the blank being turned each time it went through the rolling mill but that was a guess on my part.
Yes. You see it a lot on Chinese made cymbals - though actually more frequently on the hot-sledgehammered ones, rather than the rolled ones.
I've also seen it inside the cups on older Avedis Zildjians. From the period before they switched to carbide tools for lathing. |
http://www.mattnolancustom.com/ |
|
|
|
Twotoms
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
754 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 21:16:30
|
I now have a scanned catalog as a pdf.
Does anyone know somewhere I can upload it for everyone to download?
.... or shall I just do it as a series of pictures ( jpg ) |
|
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2012 : 16:26:59
|
Probably easiest is to scan them and upload to Photobucket or the likes and post the link here.
I bet there is no mention of Rotocasting! |
Resonators and Ufips....just beautiful. www.vintageolympic.co.uk
Rotocasting is definitely the pinnacle of cymbal manufacture!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheUFIPCYMBALS
|
|
|
|
martydrums
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
6135 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2012 : 16:44:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by drumdmc
Yes Jon it was the Zanchi brothers who invented the Rotocasting machines but as far as i know the machines were installed in the Ufip foundry possibly as Zanki didn't have space but they got their blanks from Ufip and worked on them in their own workshop.
By that I take it you mean it was the Zanchi brothers who were the innovators in the use of roto casting in cymbal making. Roto casting or centrifugal casting as it is also known has been around (sorry for the pun) for a long time and used for many purposes. I remember seeing it when I was at college and that was like 500 years ago 
|
Official Sugar Daddy of the forum's Sonor Delite appreciation society, as nominated by Jamoca - Honorary President Paul Brook
|
|
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2012 : 21:05:21
|
500 years ago Mr Mart..... pfft a mere youngster!!
Not that i knew much about centrifugal casting until i did some research, yes it was the old Zanchie boys who applied it to cymbal making. It took them 14 years to develop probably due to lack of funds or maybe because they were Italian and there never seems to be a rush over there.
It would have been interesting to see some of the early attempts...high velocity molten bronze flying though the foundry |
Resonators and Ufips....just beautiful. www.vintageolympic.co.uk
Rotocasting is definitely the pinnacle of cymbal manufacture!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheUFIPCYMBALS
|
|
|
|
Twotoms
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
754 Posts |
|
|
martydrums
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
6135 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2012 : 13:18:36
|
^ It's all clear now, not!
“It has been a pleasant insertion of antiquity traditions” Eh?
Page 4 underlines the international law of oscilloscopes: Only a person wearing a beard may operate an oscilloscope! |
Official Sugar Daddy of the forum's Sonor Delite appreciation society, as nominated by Jamoca - Honorary President Paul Brook
|
|
|
|
Jon Petersen
Advanced Contributer
Denmark
1767 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2012 : 14:09:19
|
Thanks for the upload!
No mentioning of RotoCasting - but they wouldn´t, would they, with RotoCasting being a Zanki trademark and major selling point....
Jon |
I TRY to tell myself I already have what I want..... |
|
|
|
Twotoms
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
754 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2012 : 14:50:46
|
| The translation sounds almost Shakespearean ! |
|
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2012 : 16:35:47
|
There is less in that catalogue than there is in my German one.
I do have a multilingual Zanki booklet and it mentions Rotocasting and some nice close up pictures of cymbals. I always think the Zanki cymbals look very similar to Ufip Class series!
It has the Zanki address on the back which is listed as Via Dalmazia which after looking at the map is on the other side of Pistoia from Ufip at Via Galileo Galilei. Tosco on the other hand is at Via Alessandro Volta which is 3 streets away from Ufip. It would be nice to visit Pistoia again. |
Resonators and Ufips....just beautiful. www.vintageolympic.co.uk
Rotocasting is definitely the pinnacle of cymbal manufacture!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheUFIPCYMBALS
|
|
|
|
rollingthunder
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1842 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2012 : 17:46:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by drumdmc
There is less in that catalogue than there is in my German one.
I do have a multilingual Zanki booklet and it mentions Rotocasting and some nice close up pictures of cymbals. I always think the Zanki cymbals look very similar to Ufip Class series!
It has the Zanki address on the back which is listed as Via Dalmazia which after looking at the map is on the other side of Pistoia from Ufip at Via Galileo Galilei. Tosco on the other hand is at Via Alessandro Volta which is 3 streets away from Ufip. It would be nice to visit Pistoia again.
Wasnt there a trip being organised? |
|
|
|
Twotoms
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
754 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 11:53:37
|
quote:
There is less in that catalogue than there is in my German on
Any chance of putting some scans up?
 |
|
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 13:59:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Twotoms
quote:
There is less in that catalogue than there is in my German on
Any chance of putting some scans up?
Yes will do, also found a flyer for Tosco from Norlin Music UK in Essex,it also has Pearl Congas etc so they must have been the distributers at the time. |
Resonators and Ufips....just beautiful. www.vintageolympic.co.uk
Rotocasting is definitely the pinnacle of cymbal manufacture!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheUFIPCYMBALS
|
|
|
|
drumdmc
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5568 Posts |
|
|
Twotoms
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
754 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 16:52:07
|
That's great!
It's a better brochure than mine - some proper information by the looks of it.
I'll put the Babelfish in my ear right now..... |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
All Forums
TOSCO mysteries....
New Topic
Printer Friendly
However there are plenty of Rotocast Toscos going about.