| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Bewdy
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
820 Posts |
 Posted - 11/05/2012 : 07:54:03
|
Last night I was recording, and just prior to putting down the tracks i did a tune up of my kit. It was reasonably well tuned already, but my 12" tom, which I hate tuning and the sound of at the best of times, went from being quite resonant in the hand, but as soon as I put it in place on the bass drum choked right up and sounded terrible. The difference was quite remarkable. Because my toms are power toms from the 80's I have to unfortunately rest them on the bass drum lugs otherwise I can't reach them, could this be the culprit of the choking?
I have to say though that my old Yamaha kit's days are numbered. I feel disappointed almost every time I hit the toms, the only way to get any resonance out of them is to tune them low and deep, and that's just not the tone I'm after these days. I'd really like to find a kit where hitting the toms just sounds like the tone in my head. |
LEARN TO DRUM ON THE iPHONE www.mapexdrummasterclass.com
WORK: www.virtual-engineering.co.uk PLAY: http://soundcloud.com/voodoo-cartel |
|
|
Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14649 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 08:07:45
|
| Small toms are more likely to be choked by hardware and contact with other drums than big ones. Assuming the heads are good quality and in reasonable condition then hardware/contact issues are the cause. Yamaha shells are pretty good, and anyway I have [played 70s Ludwigs with embarrassingly badly made shells and seriously wonky bearing edges, but they still sounded good, so IMO a shell has to be VERY poorly made or be made of very poor material to have such a big impact on the sound as you describe. You are losing tone through the tom mount, AND through contact with the bass drum, and the first tone to get lost is invariably the fundamental tone, and it with it goes the resonance. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
 |
|
|
Mark W
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1125 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 10:39:43
|
Hi Bewdy,
My 13" Premier Power Tom sounded embarrassingly flat and closer inspection revealed a tiny amount of play on the "L" mounting arm where it had worked loose inside of the ball part of the ball and socket mount. That's a very long sentence, I hope you caught the drift!
Anyway, I replaced the L arm and ball with one that wasn't loose and the problem was solved. And I can't stress enough how infinitesimally small the amount of play was on the original arm but it entirely sucked the life out of the drum.
Hope this helps
Cheerio
Mark W |
Once I've hit it, it stays hit.
http://www.theenzymes.co.uk |
|
|
|
Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14649 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 11:06:24
|
| Yup, If anything vibrates which should not vibrate when the drum is played it saps the head's energy and with it the tone and resonance. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
|
|
|
Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5234 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 11:26:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
Yup, If anything vibrates which should not vibrate when the drum is played it saps the head's energy and with it the tone and resonance.
Yup
|
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
|
|
|
|
Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14649 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 11:57:25
|
Presenting the GBPMLTH:
the Great British Patented Magnetic-Levitation Tom Holder! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
|
|
|
Twotoms
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
759 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 12:22:32
|
Once you have tightened everything up, and assuming you still have problems, then try having the tom on a different part of the L arm or whatever the bracket is. Just a small change can affect the sympathetic / destructive resonances of the hardware.
If you have an L arm, try it upside down, too. ( remember to tighten things though! ) |
|
|
|
inmate274
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
686 Posts |
|
|
Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14649 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 13:19:38
|
| As I had been aware of "Hardware Choke" for many years I was impressed when RIMS etc came on the scene and they really do work. I know some people do not like them, and some prefer a clipped and dry bebop sound. A few years ago I made isolation cradles for my ukuleles, and the increase in tone, sustain and projection is blindingly obvious, compared to when the uke body is held against me in the normal way. In Victorian times guitars were often mounted on resonance cradles which were set on a stand, the player stood behind and reached around trying to avoid all but finger contact in order to get the fullest and loudest sound. Drums follow exactly the same laws of physics. Neither sound is necessarily "better' or "worse", it's just what the player wants, and what suits the music. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
|
|
|
Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21184 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 13:29:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
the player stood behind and reached around trying to avoid all but finger contact
 |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
|
|
|
Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14649 Posts |
|
|
Twotoms
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
759 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 14:15:27
|
quote:
I was impressed when RIMS etc came on the scene
I always assumed you had invented them, Marcus !  |
|
|
|
Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14649 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 14:34:21
|
| No, wish I had! I had already made some support/resonance isolation rings for one kit which were scaled-down versions of support/reso rings used for years on orchestral bass drums, with rubber straps going from the rings to the tuning mechanism, then I read about Don Sleishman's clever work down there in Aus, with suspended shells and hardware, then Rims came on the scene followed by copies, and as soon as I saw Rims in MD I knew they would give the isolation needed. In fact "Suspended Bowl" timpani with the outside cradles go back to the 19th century, so it's an old idea, but Rims were the first to market a reasonably practical and reliable system, as far as I know. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
|
|
|
Bewdy
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
820 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2012 : 18:24:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mark W
Hi Bewdy,
My 13" Premier Power Tom sounded embarrassingly flat and closer inspection revealed a tiny amount of play on the "L" mounting arm where it had worked loose inside of the ball part of the ball and socket mount. That's a very long sentence, I hope you caught the drift!
Anyway, I replaced the L arm and ball with one that wasn't loose and the problem was solved. And I can't stress enough how infinitesimally small the amount of play was on the original arm but it entirely sucked the life out of the drum.
Hope this helps
Cheerio
Mark W
.
First off, with it being a Yamaha kit it's a straight hex Tom arm, and there's play in it that I'm aware off, but in terms of mounting the Tom further down the arm to get a bit of bounce as per bob's explanation in his video, unless I mount the double Tom mount a good inch and a bit higher up there just isn't the space to do this without wearing platform shoes or using extendable drum sticks, as it will be too high to be comfortable for me. I'm now so used to using my smaller rehearsal kit, which has 10/12 mounted toms and a 18 bass drum, that sadly my 12/13/22 combo just seems massive now on the lesser occasions I use it.
I'll check the toms for loose screws etc though, thanks for the tip! |
LEARN TO DRUM ON THE iPHONE www.mapexdrummasterclass.com
WORK: www.virtual-engineering.co.uk PLAY: http://soundcloud.com/voodoo-cartel |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
All Forums
Choked up Tom
New Topic
Printer Friendly