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PieGuy
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
338 Posts |
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rollingthunder
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1842 Posts |
 Posted - 17/05/2012 : 10:17:15
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Good on him.
Sharon has turned into her dad. |
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Steevo114
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
361 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2012 : 10:34:30
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Blimey. Now I don't know about the terms of the 'unsignable' contract, but 'playing for free' and 'see how it goes' and ' just do three songs' all sound like 'management ' are in doubt about his abilities to play the songs to their satisfaction to me?
Could that possibly be true, - I'm not a Sabbath expert and know nothing about Bill's more recent history.
But this is inferred, and surely he may have some case for defamation if it's not the case?
A very sad story though, and excruciating to see it played out in public.
What would kind of be nice (but impossible) would be if no-one else would accept the gig in his place.Honour amongst drummers..
There are two sides to it all and i'd like to hear the otherside, if they dare put it in writing before the fans. |
Perception is all |
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bulbousheed
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
3287 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2012 : 10:50:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Steevo114
What would kind of be nice (but impossible) would be if no-one else would accept the gig in his place.Honour amongst drummers..
Impossible yes because I dont think anyone would want to turn down that pay-cheque. Would'nt be a very nice gig anymore though, I imagine there will be a good amount of chanting for Bill at the gigs. |
http://www.thewynntownmarshals.com/
Premier Mk2 Black Shadow Resonator
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logic_user99
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
10151 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2012 : 11:09:48
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What baffles me is that this is all about 'signable contracts'. It's like the band are operating as individuals who are, regardless of the music they have made and countless fans they have entertained, sticking to their guns as individuals. What happened to be 'in a band'? I understand that when you are a represented brand like Sabbath is and Ozzy Osbourne is certain assets have to be protected, but to make it impossible for a member of the band to return without being dicked over is somewhat ridiculous.
Whoever is responsible for setting such unfriendly terms is obviously no longer concerned with the music, the band, or the fans. |
Drums | Cymbals | Sticks
"Starting my professional life from scratch..." |
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Stevie_D
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
220 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2012 : 11:53:46
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quote:
Originally posted by bulbousheed
quote:
Originally posted by Steevo114
What would kind of be nice (but impossible) would be if no-one else would accept the gig in his place.Honour amongst drummers..
Impossible yes because I dont think anyone would want to turn down that pay-cheque. Would'nt be a very nice gig anymore though, I imagine there will be a good amount of chanting for Bill at the gigs.
The first gig in Birmingham is 'play for free' though, innit?   |
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JKDrummerDude
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
269 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2012 : 16:40:50
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I got the impression that only Bill would be playing for free. And that was to prove he could do it. I'd not bother with those conditions myself if it was me.
Mind you - I did hear a rumour that last time out with Bill they had Vinnie Appice and an oxygen tank backstage in case his health wasn't up to it.
I still think this is a poor show on the management really. I bet they continue with Tommy Cluefto though - great drummer, but I guess a Sabbath reunion is really incomplete without Bill. |
Yamaha Tour Custom 24, 12, 13, 16, 18, C&C Maple 22, 12,14,16 Yamaha DTXPress IV Special |
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Mcmaul
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5955 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2012 : 17:30:00
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| His band mates ain't stood up for him, after all the things they've been thru together. I hope it falls on its ar$e!!! |
Curator of all things Mahogany duroplastic and Black shadow tinged. |
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MGM
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2012 : 20:06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by logic_user99
Whoever is responsible for setting such unfriendly terms is obviously no longer concerned with the music, the band, or the fans.
I think you've just very succinctly described Sharon Osbourne !  |
The Mighty Handful - www.mightyhandful.com
Praying Mantis - www.praying-mantis.com
Drummer, teacher, and occasional doughnut fiend |
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Dave The Drummer
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
9128 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2012 : 20:07:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Mcmaul
His band mates ain't stood up for him, after all the things they've been thru together. I hope it falls on its ar$e!!!
Seconded.
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Reaching out to embrace the random, reaching out to embrace whatever may come.
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Bonzoghost
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
6339 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2012 : 23:44:48
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Is it not worth considering that perhaps Bill is so mentally ****ed that he's difficult to deal with, musically and personally?
There were a few "issues" regarding Bill at the 1997 reunion if you remember..  |
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Shaggi
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1091 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2012 : 00:13:44
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I think it's far too dismissive to assume that just because Bill has been so outspoken about it, he is right and everyone else is wrong. To their credit, the rest of the Sabbs are not getting into a bitch-fest about it, they've just quietly reminded everyone that there are always two sides to every story. And Sharon? What's she got to do with it, she manages Ozzy - no-one else! Bill has had so very much to say about everything, don't you think he would have mentioned Sharon if she was the problem?
I think it's a very regrettable state of affairs. You have to ask yourself if there's any real purpose to the reunion if Bill isn't there. But due to Tony's health I'm sure they feel the need to continue on regardless. |
Shaggi.net |
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Powelly
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
396 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2012 : 02:19:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Bonzoghost
Is it not worth considering that perhaps Bill is so mentally ****ed that he's difficult to deal with, musically and personally?
There were a few "issues" regarding Bill at the 1997 reunion if you remember..
Agreed.
What if it turns out that Bill just isn't up to it? 'Playing 3 songs' and 'see how it goes' sound like the offers of someone who is uncertain of his abilities to me. Far be it from me to cast aspersions on his abilities, I'm simply trying to follow a management train-of-thought here, but maybe someone has decided that they'd sooner have someone on drums who they can have complete confidence in, rather than an unknown factor, even if that factor is the original drummer.
However, if that is the case, they shouldn't be billing it as a Black Sabbath reunion at all, as without Bill it isn't a 'reunion'. That being so, I know, with any band, I would prefer to see a good show, rather than the original members putting in a half-baked performance.
Just food for thought... |
www.danpowelldrums.co.uk|Surviving Savannah |
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bulbousheed
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
3287 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2012 : 07:54:50
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If Bill was so mentally ****ed why has he kept quiet about the contract details until now?
Ask yourself if you'd be prepared to play under those circumstances?
Your dealing with rock star egos here but IMO Bill has come out of all this retaining the respect he always had amongst fans. |
http://www.thewynntownmarshals.com/
Premier Mk2 Black Shadow Resonator
Diril Cymbals
Duallist pedal
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5264 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2012 : 08:54:47
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I know a fair bit about this.
Bill is a nice bloke,his mind is not ****** and he has his stuff together.
It was about a fair deal for all original members...
Too many non band members try to seize the chance to make themselves rich these days on someone else's back..
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Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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martydrums
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
6218 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2012 : 09:31:07
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Sad state of affairs this. It looks very much like Sharon is trying to create another revenue stream and it has nothing to do with honoring the music or the fans.
If there is any doubt about any member of the band being able to carry off the gigs then I would have thought that would most likely have been Ozzy not Bill! |
Official Sugar Daddy of the forum's Sonor Delite appreciation society, as nominated by Jamoca - Honorary President Paul Brook
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Mark W
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1143 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2012 : 11:38:29
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Hi All,
While supporting and respecting Bill Ward, I have to be truthful and say that I was also harbouring the thought there are two sides to every story.
Now that Yard has given a small insight I think it looks like my first instinct to support and respect him were right after all.
To echo a photo that was doing the rounds on Facebook recently (albeit with less profane language) if John Bonham was still alive would Led Zeppelin do this to him?
Cheerio
MarkW |
Once I've hit it, it stays hit.
http://www.theenzymes.co.uk |
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blueasajewel
Very Active Contributer
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2012 : 16:09:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave The Drummer
quote:
Originally posted by Mcmaul
His band mates ain't stood up for him, after all the things they've been thru together. I hope it falls on its ar$e!!!
Seconded.
Thirded. |
- Ravi |
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beezerk
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
29226 Posts |
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moosetication
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12098 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2012 : 21:23:08
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And now Ward has been cropped out of every photograph on the Sabbath site.
Neither the band nor Bill Ward have any special place in my musical memories, but that is quite simply a complete and utter disgrace. |
"It's just a rest, no need to complicate it with monkeys." - sunshinehead
SITMS #31/582 (B'ham) #31/798 (M'cr) | The Blue Road | Jive Honey |
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logic_user99
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
10151 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2012 : 23:46:20
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quote:
Originally posted by moosetication
And now Ward has been cropped out of every photograph on the Sabbath site.
Neither the band nor Bill Ward have any special place in my musical memories, but that is quite simply a complete and utter disgrace.
Just saw that on Creative Review. Appalling. |
Drums | Cymbals | Sticks
"Starting my professional life from scratch..." |
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Mcmaul
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5955 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 00:47:38
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| Sharon Osbourne, greedy, evil egotistical, avaricious, materialistic hook nose witch!! |
Curator of all things Mahogany duroplastic and Black shadow tinged. |
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Unkle Kev
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1461 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 09:21:20
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| More faces than a rubik's cube. |
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Brody
Advanced Contributer
1326 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 09:37:56
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| As said, a disgrace. No Bill Ward no Sabbath. If there was a question mark over his ability to play, then two years ago, or wheneve rthe notion of this reunion first came up, the rest of the band should've levelled with him, expressed their concerns, then given him time to show he could play everything, not wait until the last minute and offer him a prooving ground last-minute of an obviously important and emotional home town show. The fact that that dispicable haridan seems to be in charge is why none of that happened. |
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DoglegSniff
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2164 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 09:44:56
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quote:
Originally posted by beezerk
I keep trying to get into Sabbath as I know I'm missing a trick but I just can't get past Ozzie's voice.
Now's your chance then Beez - give them a shout for an audition ...oh, right ...not that kind of 'into'.
Sad state of affairs - they all seem like decent blokes, but 'someone' has them by the short ones I feel.
As for BW not commenting on Mrs Osbourne, reckon he'll have had some sound legal advice to not go there as it'd end up being costly. |
Master of Hounds and Head of Prescription Drugs, Over The Counter Medication, Lubricants and Imbibements for the forum's Sonor Delite Appreciation Society.
If you think people aren't taking you seriously enough, you're damn right. |
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MGM
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 15:31:34
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quote:
Originally posted by beezerk
I keep trying to get into Sabbath as I know I'm missing a trick but I just can't get past Ozzie's voice.
If Ozzy's voice galls you (and I can absolutely understand why that may be), perhaps you might find the albums "Heaven and Hell", "Mob Rules", and "Dehumanizer" more to your liking, featuring the rare talents of Ronnie James Dio ? Many Sabbath fans will poo-poo the idea, but it's as much Black Sabbath as the Ozzy years in my opinion. Also, the live album "Live Evil" has a range of the older material performed with Dio singing, and he puts his own stamp on them (read: "actually sings them in tune with a proper melody line" !!) |
The Mighty Handful - www.mightyhandful.com
Praying Mantis - www.praying-mantis.com
Drummer, teacher, and occasional doughnut fiend |
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Zatoichi
Advanced Contributer
Australia
2570 Posts |
Posted - 22/05/2012 : 03:27:39
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| So what happened to the old 80's standard of keeping your drummer, even if his limbs fell off? They don't make them like they used to... |
http://www.timkerrmusic.com
twitter: @7Kmusic
Yamaha :: Meinl :: Pro Mark |
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Twotoms
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
775 Posts |
Posted - 22/05/2012 : 07:04:22
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| Careful with the comments, chaps. This is a public forum and subject to the laws on defamation and all that..... |
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dwpaddy
Advanced Contributer
Ireland
22576 Posts |
Posted - 22/05/2012 : 07:55:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Zatoichi
So what happened to the old 80's standard of keeping your drummer, even if his limbs fell off? They don't make them like they used to...
Nice to have you back round these here parts.. |
DWP
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dwpaddy
Advanced Contributer
Ireland
22576 Posts |
Posted - 22/05/2012 : 07:56:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Mcmaul
His band mates ain't stood up for him, after all the things they've been thru together. I hope it falls on its ar$e!!!
Here here. |
DWP
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NCEL
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
725 Posts |
Posted - 22/05/2012 : 13:49:50
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Regrettable state of affairs indeed - as said, why the need for all the 'representatives' and lawyers and Sharon Osbournes? Why couldn't they have just gone down the pub and talked it out?
Anyway, for clarification (sort of) re: the photo cropping:
“At the request of Bill Ward, through his attorney, so as to not give the public the wrong impression about his involvement in the current Black Sabbath lineup, we have temporarily removed Bill Ward’s images from the main pages of the blacksabbath.com official website. In accordance with Bill Ward’s attorney’s request, we are doing so for the duration of the forthcoming shows.”
Seems like an odd way to go about things, but there you have it. |
Tear Down This Wall! |
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Zatoichi
Advanced Contributer
Australia
2570 Posts |
Posted - 23/05/2012 : 03:26:03
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quote:
Originally posted by dwpaddy
quote:
Originally posted by Zatoichi
So what happened to the old 80's standard of keeping your drummer, even if his limbs fell off? They don't make them like they used to...
Nice to have you back round these here parts..
Thanks, DWP. It's good to be back. I like the new wallpaper... |
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twitter: @7Kmusic
Yamaha :: Meinl :: Pro Mark |
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luke3030
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12879 Posts |
Posted - 23/05/2012 : 08:40:11
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| Tommy Clufetos played the gig on Friday then. Never heard of him. |
WANTED: ANY GRETSCH RENOWN DRUMS/KITS IN SILVER OYSTER PEARL. |
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JKDrummerDude
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
269 Posts |
Posted - 23/05/2012 : 08:49:04
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quote:
Originally posted by luke3030
Tommy Clufetos played the gig on Friday then. Never heard of him.
He's done a lot of session stuff, and was the drummer on the last Ozzy album / tour after Mike Bordin went off to play with Faith No More again. |
Yamaha Tour Custom 24, 12, 13, 16, 18, C&C Maple 22, 12,14,16 Yamaha DTXPress IV Special |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5264 Posts |
Posted - 23/05/2012 : 09:19:24
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The reason that they don't go down the pub is that too many people are protecting their own area and interests.
I know bands that have separate managers for each artist and they each negotiate on their clients behalf.
Left on their own I don't doubt that they would meet at the pub and sort it out but in todays world it is a simplistic ideal when so much money is involved.
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Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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blueasajewel
Very Active Contributer
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 23/05/2012 : 15:08:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Yard
The reason that they don't go down the pub is that too many people are protecting their own area and interests.
I know bands that have separate managers for each artist and they each negotiate on their clients behalf.
Left on their own I don't doubt that they would meet at the pub and sort it out but in todays world it is a simplistic ideal when so much money is involved.
Yeah, I guess that's really the sad reality. |
- Ravi |
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