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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21168 Posts |
 Posted - 07/06/2012 : 11:14:14
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| I can't find the link to this. Does anyone have it? |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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dibs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
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dibs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21168 Posts |
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crafty
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
7748 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 12:40:01
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| What a completely over-complicated and inflexible system. What if you want to change the characteristics of the bass drum sound by moving the microphones closer or away from the heads. What happens if a lead fails? What happens if a mic fails? What if you need to quickly adjust the damping in the drum? What if a head breaks? |
Super cool - and bongos too!
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theslingerland
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
9552 Posts |
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moosetication
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12063 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 13:01:44
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| Over-complicated? Hardly. I take the bass drum out of its bag, unfold the spurs, place it on the mat and plug it in. The end. |
"It's just a rest, no need to complicate it with monkeys." - sunshinehead
SITMS #31/582 (B'ham) #31/798 (M'cr) | The Blue Road | Jive Honey |
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crafty
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
7748 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 13:57:22
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| Fill yer boots boys. |
Super cool - and bongos too!
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StrategicAirCommand
Very Active Contributer
149 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 14:18:56
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quote:
Originally posted by moosetication
Over-complicated? Hardly. I take the bass drum out of its bag, unfold the spurs, place it on the mat and plug it in. The end.
Wot he sed 
Also
Last but one gig the sound man asked me what bass drum mic I had, because "It sounded mint". I told him it was an EV 868, but when it was on a stand poked through the sound hole of the front skin it didn't sound particularly mint, and was susceptible to feedback. It also needed gating, which it doesn't now. Brilliant gizmo for live work. |
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.
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dibs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21168 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 14:22:00
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quote:
Originally posted by crafty
What if you want to change the characteristics of the bass drum sound by moving the microphones closer or away from the heads.
Not really an issue in a live situationquote:
What happens if a lead fails?
Change it.quote:
What happens if a mic fails?
Change it.quote:
What if you need to quickly adjust the damping in the drum?
Adjust it.quote:
What if a head breaks?
Change it. |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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beezerk
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
29118 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 14:22:03
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quote:
Originally posted by StrategicAirCommand
quote:
Originally posted by moosetication
Over-complicated? Hardly. I take the bass drum out of its bag, unfold the spurs, place it on the mat and plug it in. The end.
Wot he sed
That's what Crafty asked though, he wanted to know "what if". |
http://photobucket.com/albums/c41/beezerkdrums/
Let's go Eskimo! |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21168 Posts |
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Casthoop
Advanced Contributer
Argentina
3750 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 16:03:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Prog
I can't find the link to this. Does anyone have it?
Chris you will find it filed next to " The Emperors New Clothes"
Ed |
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crafty
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
7748 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 16:40:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Prog
quote:
Originally posted by crafty
What if you want to change the characteristics of the bass drum sound by moving the microphones closer or away from the heads.
Not really an issue in a live situationquote:
What happens if a lead fails?
Change it.quote:
What happens if a mic fails?
Change it.quote:
What if you need to quickly adjust the damping in the drum?
Adjust it.quote:
What if a head breaks?
Change it.
OK, maybe I wasn't clear enough for you.
Live, you still need the flexibility to move microphones in a bass drum but let's agree to disagree.
My question regarding the lead was, if the lead is hard wired the XLR socket on the bass drum shell and is faulty, you would have to remove the front head to check the problem. This is the same for a faulty mic. With a regular boom set up, the fault can be checked without dismantling the bass drum. Also, when the sound guys are micing the kit and checking lines, I may not be there to help fault-finding until the start of the soundcheck.
Assuming you are leaving one or two mics in situ (particularly a D12) there is the weight issue. I wouldn't want to leave a D12 in situ anyway, so for me it would require a removal of the front head every gig (assuming you have no access through the front of the reso).
My point about a head breaking is, if there are wires emerging from a bass drum, I would argue it would more straight forward to pull a small boom out of the front head rather than unplugging from sockets.
Regarding the situation relating to the sound guys, I would prefer to let them do their job and me do mine. Just the same that if an engineer came to me and said, 'I've got this great snare drum for you to use, I'd say 'Good for you - but no thanks'.
TBH, I'm not against the idea. It's kind of cool but I don't think solves any problems on a big stage situation. In fact, it could make things more awkward for the sound guys. If there is an issue regarding the bass drum sound, it's far simpler on their part to angle a boom to another part of the head rather than poncing around with a sealed system that allows no flexibility.
In a smaller pub/club sound-reinforcing situation wher a band use their own PA, this system could be useful but like a lot of these 'new' ideas the standard micing system is 'standard' for a reason - its flexibility when something goes wrong.
Ed |
Super cool - and bongos too!
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21168 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 17:31:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Casthoop
quote:
Originally posted by Prog
I can't find the link to this. Does anyone have it?
Chris you will find it filed next to " The Emperors New Clothes"
Ed
Can you be any more negative, Ed? Just curious. |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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crafty
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
7748 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 18:24:27
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Which Ed? The negative Ed (casthoop)or the other negative Ed (crafty)?
Ed. |
Super cool - and bongos too!
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dibs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 19:45:44
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WE'RE ALL DOOMED! DOOOOOOOOOOMED I TELL YOU!
They're all valid points but I personally have had more issues with numpties (mainly my band mates!) trippingover/kicking the mic stand and suffering torn heads etc on account of it and have never suffered from any of the other problem scenarios stated above so I'm willing to take a chance and give it a whirl. For the nominal cost of the DIY route it'll keep me out of mischief for a rainy afternoon at least.
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moosetication
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12063 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 20:07:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Casthoop
Chris you will find it filed next to "The Emperors New Clothes"
Poor. The Emperor's New Clothes (possessive apostrophe added at no extra expense), being illusory, had no practical purpose. The practical use of an internally shock-mounted bass drum mic is (for some people, amongst which I am numbered) far from illusory.
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"It's just a rest, no need to complicate it with monkeys." - sunshinehead
SITMS #31/582 (B'ham) #31/798 (M'cr) | The Blue Road | Jive Honey |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21168 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 20:52:00
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quote:
Originally posted by crafty
Which Ed? The negative Ed (casthoop)or the other negative Ed (crafty)?
Ed.
I'd have thought my quoting would've made it clear. |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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AndyC
Advanced Contributer
Spain
337 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 21:15:48
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quote:
Originally posted by dibs
There's this one too (and many others)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hex6vYvLvT4&feature=related
HEY! Thatīs mine! I couldn't be prouder. 
Re the cable. I have a hole in my front bass drum head, but didn't like the mic cable coming out through there. Instead,I made a cable of about 2 meters sticking through the sound hole. I donīt anchor it or anything, it's just long enough to comfortably reach the floor,so I just plug another lead from there to the desk. I donīt think the appearance of this is an issue, because the lead emerging from the shell just merges with the other snare and tom leads.
Itīs obviously not a perfect solution. In a perfect world, someone else would carry the mic stand, set it up, move it around to find the perfect position and keep the bleedin' singer away from it so he doesn't knock into it, knock it our of position and maybe split the head in the process.
I have depped with a band who had their own sound man who wanted to use his own mics, and he wanted to position it, so..... I let him. I just left mine in situ and it didnīt get in the way, and didnīt affect anything.
Broken heads... I had one...er... I changed it. It was the front head, and the hole wasn't re-inforced. It was damaged, at least partially, by, for the first 2 years of itīs life having mics and leads poked through it.
Positioning, gotta say, since making the video I've moved it back a bit in the drum. It's a relatively cheap mic, going in to a relatively cheap desk, I like to hit hard and somewhere along the line it was clipping. So, got someone to move it around inside the drum to find the best position as I played. All it took was moving it back a couple of inches, so I was able to position it perfectly just by screwing it into a different hole in the bracket. If I'd had to, I could easily have re-done the cables to put it anywhere I wanted. Before I got this, we never messed around with the positioning anyway. Either put it on the pillow that used to be in there, or, put it on a boom stand in pretty much exactly the same position itīs in now. At least till the singer tripped over the stand/lead.
Regarding adjusting sound. I think of it like an electric/acoustic guitar. The guitarist plugs in, they adjust the sound on the desk. It suffers from many of the points people made about this drum micing system, but what percentage of acoustic guitars played live are miced these days. Also like an electro acoustic. In most situations where there might be a problem, say the mic/pick-up fails, you just put a different mic there.
Overall, I wasn't sure about it before I made mine, and, wasn't prepared to lay out the cost of a kelly shu. In the end I actually enjoyed making mine, and I love having a good consistent sound with no work. I put the bass drum on the stage, I plug a lead in, it sounds great. If I couldn't/didn't want to make my own, knowing what I know now, I'd buy a Kelly shu.
Andy |
"You can practice 12 hours a day and become the fastest drummer in the world, but it's not a race." Kenny Clare |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21168 Posts |
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moosetication
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12063 Posts |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21168 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 22:37:09
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Just looking at options and I've gone over budget.
I'm getting a direct to shell mount from lee haydn which I'll be using at least to start with. |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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moosetication
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12063 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 23:00:03
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Just curious. I would have thought 50 quid for a Kelly Shu was noise compared to the 1500 you've spent on monitoring alone!
I did not have success with direct to shell. Occasionally the feedback could be horrific due to the coupling with hollow wooden stages. |
"It's just a rest, no need to complicate it with monkeys." - sunshinehead
SITMS #31/582 (B'ham) #31/798 (M'cr) | The Blue Road | Jive Honey |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21168 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2012 : 08:52:23
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Interesting. I hadn't considered that as an issue.
Ģ50 is too much right now. Maybe next month. |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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gryphon
Advanced Contributer
USA
1175 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2012 : 01:48:44
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I made my own internal Shu type mount and have been using it for going on 3 years now. With a connector mounted in the shell the microphone and the internal wiring are well protected, and I would guess that because of the suspension inside the bass drum the microphone is the most protected part of the kit.
Moosetication is correct, just plug and go.
jim |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5231 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2012 : 17:30:04
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I'm with Ed on this.
I am a complete mug on technical nonsense but every soundman I work with (I'm talking high end soundmen not Dog & Duck local) they all work with the monitor man to move the mic in and out,left and right until we hit the sweet spot.
These boys are well respected and I as a mere observer trust their judgement.
But then again if it works for you then ...as you were? |
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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crafty
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
7748 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2012 : 12:25:08
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'Dog and Duck'. Hehe.
Bye chaps! |
Super cool - and bongos too!
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21168 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2012 : 12:27:15
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quote:
Originally posted by crafty
Bye chaps!
Close the door on your way out. |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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New Boy
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5149 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2012 : 12:36:39
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| I find mine handy as being in a twelve piece space is tight. I'm only playing Dog and Duck venues, Pubs hotel weddings. We have a competent sound man and it sounds good to my ears. I guess serious studio sessions are all together different. |
Free the Tempus one - The missing thread lives on!
(Carrera, Highwood, Amedia,Paiste).
http://www.saraban.co.uk/ |
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lee haydn
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2033 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2012 : 14:24:21
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| It's obviously great to have a pro' sound man on your side but in the absence of these demi gods we sometimes have to make do with what wev'e got, i'm just off to the post office to send Prog the shell mount holder, maybe tap washers underneath the mount might help with any "rumblings",, |
Ludwig Maple Classic (Green Sparkle) + L400
Sabian HH and Paiste Stanbul vintage
Pro' Racket |
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martydrums
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
6141 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2012 : 14:39:51
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quote:
Originally posted by moosetication
Just curious. I would have thought 50 quid for a Kelly Shu was noise compared to the 1500 you've spent on monitoring alone!
I did not have success with direct to shell. Occasionally the feedback could be horrific due to the coupling with hollow wooden stages.
Bass drum feedback, been there, very not good |
Official Sugar Daddy of the forum's Sonor Delite appreciation society, as nominated by Jamoca - Honorary President Paul Brook
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moosetication
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12063 Posts |
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lee haydn
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2033 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2012 : 16:09:32
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| Did you try isolating the screws top and bottom Stewart?,, just thinking maybe a rubber "sandwich" might help a little better,, |
Ludwig Maple Classic (Green Sparkle) + L400
Sabian HH and Paiste Stanbul vintage
Pro' Racket |
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dwpaddy
Advanced Contributer
Ireland
22527 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2012 : 07:08:31
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I use D112's with Kelly's on my kits and I have to agree with Ed, the weight can be a problem.
Before every gig I have to fiddle about setting it up through the port hole. Pain in the arse. End of every gig its gone lop-sided again.
However, it does save time and stops singist knocking the mic stand over every bloody gig.
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DWP
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