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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5228 Posts |
 Posted - 12/06/2012 : 19:03:58
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When someone buys a vintage kit people ask...What year?
The correct question should be "How does it sound"?
Drums are made in factories by an assortment of men and women but mainly women who put them together the same way every year!! |
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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andywilson
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
387 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2012 : 19:50:14
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| Drummers or drum makers? |
No 6 of 582 and 850 Mapex Orion. Paiste 16 & 18 crashes Sabian AAX 13 sox B8 china.
I FELT THE POWER ! |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5228 Posts |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14588 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2012 : 20:26:59
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Guitarists are the same: 1959 was a good year for electric guitars. Perhaps the Sun spot activity was just right to affect Earth's Magnetosphere in just the right way to make the pick up magnets behave in just the right way to make just the "right" sound.
Or perhaps the Algae in the sea were just numerous enough to reflect just enough of the Sun's rays to maintain average temperatures just enough for the finish to evaporate in just the right way to make the wood vibrate just right.
Or other such twaddle and Juju.
"How does it sound" and "How can I make the best music on it" are the important questions. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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andywilson
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
387 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2012 : 20:34:28
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| You got to care. |
No 6 of 582 and 850 Mapex Orion. Paiste 16 & 18 crashes Sabian AAX 13 sox B8 china.
I FELT THE POWER ! |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5228 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2012 : 20:36:44
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Yes I don't get it either.
Failure to have the right badge with a randomly chosen and fitted serial number makes all the difference?
I have calls for Ludwig kits to check that the serial numbers are in consecutive order as they will sound better?
As my footnote says "Whack the poxy thing"....and listen!
Mind you a '62 400 sounds better than a '61 or does it,but they did not have serial numbers then? |
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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Th0mas25
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
8334 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2012 : 22:18:15
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It depends on why someone is buying a vintage kit Yard. Fair enough, 'how does it sound' is the most important question for anyone who's going to play those vintage drums, or guitar or whatever. But "made in factories by an assortment of men and women but mainly women who put them together the same way every year!!" is true only to a point. Some factories closed, some opened elsewhere, with a different workforce, or using different parts or tooling, these things can and do make a difference to how something sounds, how it plays, or how interesting or collectable it is.
I'm surprised at your comments Marcus... using a car analogy; Any modern car is comfortable, (usually) reliable, and drives fine. So why drive a '50s(?) bubble car? I'd guess it's because it has more character, it's fun, and it a hobby not only to drive it but to maintain and restore it and be part of a likeminded scene. And why a 3 wheel bubble car instead of an old Jag, Zephyr, '57 Chevy or whatever? It's because it speaks to YOU. When you mention guitarists and 1959, that's not twaddle. Strats aside, there were only a very limited number of Les Pauls built in '58,'59 & '60, all with very different burst & flame tops, before the model was discontinued for many years. Do they play or sound any better than a modern Les Paul? Maybe not... is there a pleasure to be had from owning and playing something so rare and beautiful, I'd say there is, (as do the prices for one today!!)
Going back to drums then, why choose a Premier over a Luddie, or a Luddie over a Slingerland, or a modern DW over any vintage kit? Should it just be sound that matters? No, you want it to sound good, look good, and to feel something towards that instrument. As you are in the music business Yard I can understand why sound would be the only thing that matters, but I think to anyone else it's a lot more than that 
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http://bjornsdrums.webs.com/ |
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PJRose
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1698 Posts |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5228 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2012 : 22:39:59
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As a very gracious drummer said to me as we looked at his collection bagged and seated on shelves in his warehouse...It's a waste really,they should all be out and played!
If you want to collect drums and would like your serial numbers in sequence its no problem but you will pay a premium for them.As long as you are willing to do so.The talk these days are more of value than sound?
Pro drummers to a point don't care how they look,they care about the sound... |
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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scoobydude
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2485 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2012 : 00:50:56
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| The production years of guitars definitely do matter. For example, I'd be loathe to buy a US Strat made in the late 70's or early 80's as CBS had run the quality level down and were building them as cheaply as possible. There are some real lemons out there from that period. After the management buyout around 1987/88 the quality began to improve and by the late 90's there are some real beauties around. There are also issues about which wood was available at the time and differences in parts that were used. That's why I have a '97 Strat. |
www.scoobyband.com |
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andywilson
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
387 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2012 : 01:19:25
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Th0mas25 said " As you are in the music business Yard I can understand why sound would be the only thing that matters, but I think to anyone else it's a lot more than that "
I can't help but think that a "Yard approved kit bundle" certification would guarantee the sonic and other qualities of a kit. |
No 6 of 582 and 850 Mapex Orion. Paiste 16 & 18 crashes Sabian AAX 13 sox B8 china.
I FELT THE POWER ! |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14588 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2012 : 08:53:51
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| @ThOmas25, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek! I am not deriding the guitars or other instruments from certain periods, but more the people who get so bound up in "folklore" often with little understanding of the reasons for something being "special" beyond what they have read in interviews or picked up from others, and then spend more time fussing about the historical details rather than using the instruments and enjoying them. I do actually know people who can talk for hours about the most arcane and frankly irrelevant details, and Frank Zappa's quote comes to my mind: "Shut up and PLAY your guitar"! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5228 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2012 : 08:56:02
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You only have to read the Forum to know that sound IS paramount.
Not many posts are about buying another kit as they hate the look,its about sound.
When a factory moves the existing machinery moves with it as do the shell moulds,router tables,saw tables etc.The core employees move also.
Production is faster today due to RF machines that cure a shell in 20 seconds.Everything else stays the same.
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Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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dogface
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
891 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2012 : 11:25:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Yard
You only have to read the Forum to know that sound IS paramount.
Not many posts are about buying another kit as they hate the look,its about sound.
When a factory moves the existing machinery moves with it as do the shell moulds,router tables,saw tables etc.The core employees move also.
Production is faster today due to RF machines that cure a shell in 20 seconds.Everything else stays the same.
I'm not someone who gets worked up about brand names, types of wood or year of manufacture, but "everything else stays the same" is just plain wrong. The shells that Premier used to make up to (about?) the 1970s were very thin with an overlapped join and reinforced with very substantial beech re-rings. Their modern shells are completely different. |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5228 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2012 : 13:19:50
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quote:
Originally posted by dogface
quote:
Originally posted by Yard
You only have to read the Forum to know that sound IS paramount.
Not many posts are about buying another kit as they hate the look,its about sound.
When a factory moves the existing machinery moves with it as do the shell moulds,router tables,saw tables etc.The core employees move also.
Production is faster today due to RF machines that cure a shell in 20 seconds.Everything else stays the same.
I'm not someone who gets worked up about brand names, types of wood or year of manufacture, but "everything else stays the same" is just plain wrong. The shells that Premier used to make up to (about?) the 1970s were very thin with an overlapped join and reinforced with very substantial beech re-rings. Their modern shells are completely different.
All modern drums look the same to me.If I were to comb through every brand we would need another site .The changes came about when the original drum families sold to holding corporations where others got involved to streamline production and make more profit.
Shell design has changed here and there but a shell is a shell.No matter how you put one together it still forms a resonant tube,the only difference being whether it is Mahogany,Maple,Beech etc.which gives them their characteristic sound.
The lure for me of vintage drums are the variety of designs,hoops,colours and the irregularity and quirks in their shells.
They look and sound stunning.
I also buy antique furniture for the same reason...but not for the sound.
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Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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Tex
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1582 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2012 : 18:51:06
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And most of what you buy is air. If it's been in an attic you can still smell the 60s inside.
I always look for the teeth marks.
What's really valuable, because there's none that has not been burned is Gigsters with the original Krut cymbal. |
Sitting on top of the mountain isn't the most interesting bit of the climb. Sitting at the bottom aint much fun either. |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21164 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2012 : 18:57:57
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I bought my latest kit because it looked pretty and was the right sizes.
The sound can be changed with different heads. |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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Yard
Advanced Contributer
Uzbekistan
5228 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2012 : 19:06:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Prog
I bought my latest kit because it looked pretty and was the right sizes.
The sound can be changed with different heads.
Really?? Whats the date stamp/serial numbers? |
Shut it and whack the poxy things!
www.vintagedrumyard.co.uk
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21164 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2012 : 19:26:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Yard
quote:
Originally posted by Prog
I bought my latest kit because it looked pretty and was the right sizes.
The sound can be changed with different heads.
Really?? Whats the date stamp/serial numbers?
It's not old but not brand new either. Will that do? |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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