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Jon Petersen
Advanced Contributer
Denmark
1782 Posts |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
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Mcmaul
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5955 Posts |
 Posted - 06/08/2012 : 14:05:00
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| Bet cj's all over that!! |
Curator of all things Mahogany duroplastic and Black shadow tinged. |
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thebeaver
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1884 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 14:07:24
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Fill a whippersnapper in on what the crap that is... to me it looks like a floor tom with underfloor heating installed...
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Tunbridge Wells Music School
www.twmusicschool.com |
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GaryR
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1315 Posts |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 16:16:14
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| It is puzzling. The mechanism present looks to me like a pitch changing device as in pedal timpani, rather than a beating mechanism, so perhaps a pedal tuned tom rather than a Cocktail Bass Drum. The lever appears to have a curved clutch bar to hold pitch. I wonder if there is an internal tuning mechanism, like top and/or bottom hoops pressing on the heads to affect pitch. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 16:22:47
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I just found this:
http://www.cocktaildrum.com/learn/history.html
This seems to be a later more refined version and has a pitch pedal and a beater pedal.
In the 70s Italian company Meazzi made pedal floor toms with internal spider mechanisms connected to the tension lugs which pivoted to alter the pitch. Sonor made a pneumatic one. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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thebeaver
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1884 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 17:26:48
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Sooooo you're telling us no Ice Cream then? |
Tunbridge Wells Music School
www.twmusicschool.com |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 17:33:00
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No, you need Summer for Ice Cream!
Actually it does also look like some early washing machines, I restored one on which the electric motor was mounted directly beneath a leaky tub and fitted with cloth covered cable....ouch! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 18:35:07
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| I believe, it an early model of a Carlton Combination, including this one, I know of 3 versions of this drum. they all had a bottom hitting bass pedal, one had a tensioning pedal for the upper head, the other had 2 pedals, one for tensioning the upper head and the other I have no idea. I will post pics tonight if I have time. |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 18:41:42
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| CJ, the one in the link I posted has just one metal band around it near the top of the drum, presumably part of the top head tension mechanism and/or reinforcing/mounting for it and the legs. The eBay one JP started this thread with has two bands, so could it perhaps have tuneable top and bottom heads? Do you know if they used a spider mech, or an internal pressure hoop acting on the edge of the head? |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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Casthoop
Advanced Contributer
Argentina
3758 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 18:44:32
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CJ on a different thing can you give me your Skype?
Ed |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 21:58:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
CJ, the one in the link I posted has just one metal band around it near the top of the drum, presumably part of the top head tension mechanism and/or reinforcing/mounting for it and the legs. The eBay one JP started this thread with has two bands, so could it perhaps have tuneable top and bottom heads? Do you know if they used a spider mech, or an internal pressure hoop acting on the edge of the head?
That could be Marcus, I just don't know, I 've never seen the inside of one. The person who would know is Sir Alan Buckley, I know he has at least one, he had 2 but it was "misplaced" at the Chicago show years ago.
I do have the matching snare to the one on Ebay, same type badge. All the other combos I have seen, have the badge in your pic. My theory, that the combo on Ebay is pre-war, my snare is pre-war, so, we need somebody to get in touch with Sir Alan |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 22:00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Casthoop
CJ on a different thing can you give me your Skype?
Ed
It's c.j. blundell, use the search part of Skype, I. Should be in there |
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MacDB7
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
262 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2012 : 22:26:40
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Very interesting!
It would have to be a specialist to buy that!
I wouldn't have the first clue where to find parts for the restoration! |
Jazz drummer
Mapex & Zildjian = the perfect combination!
http://soundcloud.com/calum-macleod |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 10:09:12
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quote:
Originally posted by capt.wierd
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
CJ, the one in the link I posted has just one metal band around it near the top of the drum, presumably part of the top head tension mechanism and/or reinforcing/mounting for it and the legs. The eBay one JP started this thread with has two bands, so could it perhaps have tuneable top and bottom heads? Do you know if they used a spider mech, or an internal pressure hoop acting on the edge of the head?
That could be Marcus, I just don't know, I 've never seen the inside of one. The person who would know is Sir Alan Buckley, I know he has at least one, he had 2 but it was "misplaced" at the Chicago show years ago.
I do have the matching snare to the one on Ebay, same type badge. All the other combos I have seen, have the badge in your pic. My theory, that the combo on Ebay is pre-war, my snare is pre-war, so, we need somebody to get in touch with Sir Alan
I have sent him the eBay link in an email. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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Jon Petersen
Advanced Contributer
Denmark
1782 Posts |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 10:31:24
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| ^ That one seems to have two tuning pedals, perhaps you can tune Top, Bottom or Both, as well as the beater pedal. Two tuning pedals might indicate for top and bottom heads, but it only has one metal band at the top, so perhaps my idea that the metal bands are part of the pedal tuning mechanism is wrong. Interesting mystery, I would like to know more about the mechanisms! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 14:10:52
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quote:
Originally posted by MacDB7
Very interesting!
It would have to be a specialist to buy that!
I wouldn't have the first clue where to find parts for the restoration!
It's one of those things that a collector just has to have, as far as parts, since most were cast, a model can be made and the part cast in zamac 3. It is not that difficult, the pedals are the same as the Carlton 4+4, so you have your model |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 14:21:59
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| Marcus, if I win this, we shall discover the interior, I had the first 2 bids on that critter |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 19:31:45
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| Good luck CJ, it sure would be great if you get it and post some photos. I might be able to make some parts if required. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 20:19:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
Good luck CJ, it sure would be great if you get it and post some photos. I might be able to make some parts if required.
Thanks, Marcus, right now there are so many old things on Ebay, it looks like you guys started Spring cleaning rather late. |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 20:28:01
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| Perhaps people are thinking that if they do enough Spring Cleaning we might eventually get some Summer |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2012 : 20:34:16
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| I've looked at Sir Alan's collection and he has 3 Carlton Combo's at the moment but none with the double banding |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 11:09:24
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| Hi Marcus, Any word from Sir Alan? |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 11:42:00
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| No reply, but this was true last time I emailed him, perhaps he does not answer many emails, especially as we have never met, or perhaps he is on holiday |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2012 : 18:19:56
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| Well, it's mine!!!! and we shall soon discover the inner workings of this critter. I'm sending Simon the Space Trucker to collect otherwise it will be months before it gets here. |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2012 : 18:32:06
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| Great news CJ, glad it has gone to good home and looking forwards to seeing photos. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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Jon Petersen
Advanced Contributer
Denmark
1782 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2012 : 22:23:56
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Great!
Jon |
I TRY to tell myself I already have what I want..... |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
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Jon Petersen
Advanced Contributer
Denmark
1782 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2012 : 23:05:35
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What a weird and splendid contraption.
Jon |
I TRY to tell myself I already have what I want..... |
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Bazarre
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
8031 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2012 : 23:18:02
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| And we argue about the difference in shell resonance caused by ISO mounts versus drilled shells! |
Sex, magic and R n R! -- all in ZOLIN! now on Amazon for Kindle readers |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14788 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2012 : 08:01:21
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Cheers for the photo CJ, but I still don't understand the mechanism! A spider mechanism normally connects to pivoting lugs on the outside of the shell (or in the case of suspended bowl timpani to bell cranks in the frame struts and thence to the tension rods. You would expect this spider to connect to pivoto lugs or bell cranks, yet on the outside of the drum are normal "static" lugs and tension rods. All I can imagine is that the head and hoop are fixed by rods by normal lugs, and the spider acts on an internal pressure ring under the head, but that would require the spider to be acting in compression not tension, and that seems very odd to me. More photos greatly appreciated!
Baz, you are right, from about the 1850s timpani makers were busy on all sorts of tuning devices, many of which did require a lot of gubbins attached to the shell and inside it, and eventually the large external framework and mechanism was designed leaving the bowl empty and only in contact with anything at its rim. Interestingly though, the single head and enclosed bowl of a timpani has a similar affect to the tone as non-Iso mounts on a tom: reduced sustain and loss of low tones! Thus all that design work to make external frames and mechanism actually achieves remarkably little for a huge increase in bulk and cost! For Professionals only! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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capt.wierd
Advanced Contributer
USA
7372 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2012 : 09:44:58
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| Hi Marcus, Simon has the drum in Peterborough, I've asked him to send me a better pic of the mechanism. I want to what's up at the head end. |
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