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 Executing too fast.
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Tex
Advanced Contributer

United Kingdom
2057 Posts

Posted - 13/06/2017 :  20:03:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll attempt to explain something drum teachers may spot but I have yet to find it addressed in any online video or book.
It involves those who have studied and know the mechanics of the rudiments but who constantly cannot get either smooth rolls or mixed singles/doubles where the stick constantly flies out of your hands.

What I think I have found in myself (and I used to be able to do these things) is that an important component of keeping the stick in your hand is the speed and force of the up and downstroke.
Many rudimentary players have this naturally but rock drummers don't always as they work in a slightly different way.

The constant effort for the drummer in loud (or just noisy) bands is the force of hitting the drum and speed or velocity has a bearing on this.
But when, like me you get into or revisit something more technical bits of control have gone missing over the years.
What I found was that on doubles and mixed strokes a lot of sticks were dropped. For me, left hand matched grip was the problem, the orthodox is fine. My singles were clean with no problems at all. Nice rock singles.
I studied everything. Wrist, arm up down and rotation, finger movement and position the palm. Anything that could get in the way and lever the stick out.
None of these.
I found that it was simply the speed that my hands (left hand mostly)anticipated the beat. They moved too fast and while the beats arrived on the button it was the speed of travel and the CHANGE of the speed of travel that was the culprit.
Thus the stick hitting the head and rebounding was not the problem. I was reacting too fast too the rebound which is hard to spot at faster speeds and I was either trying to over-control the stick or snatching at a slow rebound to compensate the time of the beat.
What I hadn't thought of was the time the sticks made no noise which must be 90% Airborne.
So I just slowed everything down that was in mid air. They say "Go with the stick" but at fast tempos instinct tells you to chase the stick.
Don't chase the stick. But don't let it overtake you either.
The stick only works when it hits the head. After that it's all momentum and that's what I wasn't working with in my left hand.
Plus I was doing the rock thing and using speed to get volume as well as height.
So forget the speed.
Let the speed tell your hands how fast you move and not tell yourself this is how it should be.
It is counter-intuitive to move slower to get faster but it works for me. But then I used to do all this without thinking about it. Until I had to relearn it.
Give me feedback on whether all this makes any sense or if it helps anyone.

When setting up the kit and playing one must put the carpet down before the furniture goes on top

Tex
Advanced Contributer

United Kingdom
2057 Posts

Posted - 14/06/2017 :  04:22:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To prepare for this way of thinking first play single beats with one hand as though doing a backbeat. Bring the stick down as fast as possible. Then try the same with more height but slower, as slow as is sensible.
Try putting that to a beat (metronome maybe but not essential), piece of music etc. See how slow you can place the beat on the beat.
Think wipe not swipe, as though the stick is a squeegee cleaning windows rather than trying to arrive at the head as quickly as possible.

When setting up the kit and playing one must put the carpet down before the furniture goes on top
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hector1
Advanced Contributer

United Kingdom
2607 Posts

Posted - 14/06/2017 :  13:15:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tex many thanks for posting the issue-I have gone through issues like this recently and your absolutely right in what you have written regarding the Rock genre and rudimental procedures.It was very enlightening indeed to have some one write in with this kind of issue as like me I hope it makes others aware if its a pain or your struggling sometimes could be the daftest thing(but keep it reasonable) it always helps to help others. One way I improved things personally with the singles and doubles situations was to review how I would play a RLLRRL sticking which gives you the single then double on one hand then double to the other finishing with a single on the other. For me this has worked real well as its up to me as and when I apply an accent but to keep it simple that would be kept to the single R or L.Now there are some controls for technique here to enable what suits your accent capability whether its a thundering Back stroke or Lead hand or start mid way or apply Rim shot on one and head accent only on the other. The doubles then focus on the bounce or drag/Buzz/Taps whatever you wish to do or combine say buzz the LL then double the RR exit with back stroke on the left-obviously apply the R to start in whatever way you wish as listed above. There is probably loads of other scenarios that I could type hear as well but this one have helped me during this week so thought it worth a post and see what you may make of it.

Drumming is like a meeting to conduct business.
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Tex
Advanced Contributer

United Kingdom
2057 Posts

Posted - 14/06/2017 :  14:51:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Hector. I had tried all the stickings under the sun but it's the stick in the air time that got me. Especially on the 6 strokes. It was the speed time in the air of mainly the left hand moving UPWARDS. It needed to slow down. The energy being expended would leave the stick behind and it would end up loose for the next beat.
This problem mainly appears as fatigue setting in over time.
Having it not happen all the time took some searching to find the cause.
I'm not one of these guys who accepts old advice adages like "It happens to everyone, it's unavoidable." I always want to find out why.
Find out why has also made doing fast shuffles a lot easier...

When setting up the kit and playing one must put the carpet down before the furniture goes on top
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hector1
Advanced Contributer

United Kingdom
2607 Posts

Posted - 14/06/2017 :  19:49:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well-done Tex-yes share the same opinion regarding finding out why aswell.It is important mainly for yourself as you have the issue and it kind of gets personal. But its great to hear its on the mend as well and again I hope your advice inspires others to pursue such a method to overcome there issues as well. Yes I know what you mean about the sticking's as well but even singles exercises can help a great deal as you get to deal with one thing at a time. A while ago I had some issues with timing and looking at some Jazz stuff. So Mr Jazz guy was pushing out all these fancy chops etc and being very smug about how Rock drummers are ten a penny etc! So after some lively debate etc on the matter MR Smarty pants finally realised that when he was confronted with some rock beats and asked to display and maintain a whole note etc he was all over the place, but in true cool Rock Dude attitude-it was cool with me.I made no such merriment at all toward his struggles etc but with some help and technique display I think it changed his opinion and since we have smiled about the outcome. Great thing he is now a bit more Human but still a Dam fine drummer but has this skill under his belt now which he could not perform before realistically and like wise he gave me some great tips that Jazz drummers use for there stick control.

Drumming is like a meeting to conduct business.
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Tex
Advanced Contributer

United Kingdom
2057 Posts

Posted - 14/06/2017 :  21:09:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My issue is solved. I have gigged it and I'm happy but it did take a bit of tracking down as to why so I thought I'd pass it on.
It's probably inherent in good drum lessons but somehow if you've left it alone for a few years it's not like riding a bike. I just felt it was something that was lacking in online drum lessons and videos although, as you can't knock excellent qualities of drum teachers, it's not the obvious solution I thought it would be.
I did ask people to watch as I played and video'd myself and didn't spot it at all and neither could anyone else.
It is counter-intuitive to think of moving slowly (slower) while doing something fast... I just hope I've described it well enough.

When setting up the kit and playing one must put the carpet down before the furniture goes on top
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hector1
Advanced Contributer

United Kingdom
2607 Posts

Posted - 15/06/2017 :  16:28:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Tex

yes your explanation certainly was good and glad to hear you've got as fix on it now. Likewise with the Drum tutor thing these guys are the best with issues like that providing you get the right one for you, but 9/10 they are very high standard indeed and have some fantastic skills at problem solving even issues such as that with such great precision but at a cost obviously.

You tube etc is all okay but when its a Human issue then there's no machine in the world that can help most of the time other than another human!

Drumming is like a meeting to conduct business.
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