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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
 Posted - 12/07/2011 : 13:22:16
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Alright, alright, we all get shocked by pro singers who need Autotune, and we all agree that a good singer should be able to sing in tune, blah-de-blah etc.
However what about the scenario where someone writes and records their own songs, is not a pro singer, nor even a good singer by any stretch of the imagination. This hypothetical singer, well me actually, cannot find another singer prepared to put in some time to record the songs, or to sing them in a reasonably apt style.
So I do the vocals, and find that however good or bad the songs might be, the vocals let them down and are definitely the weakest link, goodbye!
So:
Do I buy Autotune and bung it on my pc?
Will it affect the tone of my voice, as I DO NOT want that horrid modern synthetic voice sound?
Are the cheap ones (at about £75) any good, or is there a big improvement in getting a dearer one, like £155?
Cheers! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21181 Posts |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2011 : 20:56:06
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| Cheers Squire! I might try that and see if it suits me tomorrow. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21181 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2011 : 21:02:37
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| It's easy to overdo the effect but the 'subtle' preset (I think it's called) is a good starting point. |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2011 : 21:08:09
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| That's what I will go for, i hate the heavy effect on so many dance songs these days! like all fashions it will suddenly become very dated, and that day cannot come too soon for me! I just want to try to get my vocals a tad better when I miss or waver on a few notes. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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MrNoisy
Advanced Contributer
9905 Posts |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 08:42:34
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| Cheers Ted, that particular is out of production, but I checked dv247 and you tube, and there are several Melodyne products including a basic corrector at £85, do you reckon this would be alright for my purposes? |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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MrNoisy
Advanced Contributer
9905 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 08:55:30
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Yes Marcus
Take a look at this 1st and make your own mind up ...But it is amazing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zeLKMHxbN8 |
If you don't like my outlook on life ...Then get one of your own |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 09:07:52
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| Cheers Ted, yup that's the video I found after watching the one in your first link, I really only want this software to slightly enhance my vocal tracks (I am not a great singer and never will be!), so if the £85 Melodyne does that for me it will be well worth it. Thanks for putting me on to this, and have a great time in Turkey! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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MrNoisy
Advanced Contributer
9905 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 17:36:26
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| Thanks Captain have fun |
If you don't like my outlook on life ...Then get one of your own |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 18:01:02
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I have downloaded a 30 day free trial of Melodyne, but my pc cannot read the files and I cannot find any software to download to let me use it; they all seem to want £20 or so to "fix problem files" on my pc so that I can download their file-reading software, but that is £20 I could put towards buying the Melodyne software itself! Soddit, dunno wot to do!
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Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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rytenuff
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
3514 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 18:06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
I have downloaded a 30 day free trial of Melodyne, but my pc cannot read the files and I cannot find any software to download to let me use it; they all seem to want £20 or so to "fix problem files" on my pc so that I can download their file-reading software, but that is £20 I could put towards buying the Melodyne software itself! Soddit, dunno wot to do!
What is the extension of the files? |
Regards
George Mac
http://www.rytenuff.com/ |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 18:30:52
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Cheers, I think the important ones are .plist and .dll, but also .bin .ini and .hr
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Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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TrevCircleStudios
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 19:44:41
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| Agreee with the above. Melodyne plugin is the most useable of the bunch with the least artifacts IMO. |
You can't polish a turd!
www.circlestudios.co.uk |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 19:56:02
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| Cheers Trev, some friends are saying the same but I just wish I could get the Free Trial download to chuffing work so I can see how I get on with it! It seems that everything designed for computers is incompatible with, er, computers? Do cars reject petrol if it not the correct brand?! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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lucas
Excellent Contributer
276 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 21:27:12
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Depends why you record, If its to sell your songs the sound of the vocals wont put prospective buyers off, they can tell a good song when they hear one so don't sweat it. If its for your own enjoyment use what you have too.
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 22:34:20
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| Well it's for both reasons, and about half the people who hear my music are not bothered by my 2nd rate vocals, but the others do notice the problems, and realistically that means that the flaws detract from their enjoyment. I make no claims to be a singer, just that there is no-one else who has the time or will so it has to be me! If a little bit of cheating can make the music better without making it robotic then I want to at least try this technology and see if it works for me! And no, I have NO intention of going on X Fuctor or anything like that! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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TrevCircleStudios
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2011 : 23:54:44
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If your anywhere near the midlands call in some time and I'll show you it working
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You can't polish a turd!
www.circlestudios.co.uk |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 14/07/2011 : 08:07:23
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| Cheers Trev, unlikely to be anytime soon, but I will be up in Brum for the National Drum Fair, perhaps a chance to meet up then, but I hope to have sorted this quest out by then! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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christianmurphy
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
534 Posts |
Posted - 14/07/2011 : 09:40:31
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| What recording software do you use? |
79 Ludwig - Pearl Masters - Istanbul - Zildjian - DW |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 14/07/2011 : 09:51:54
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| Cubase 4. It has pitch sift to change the key of a complete track, but I don't think it has pitch correction. C5 and C6 do, so I might be able to upgrade, but it's then a question as to whether it is best to upgrade or get the Melodyne. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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brushbaby
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
645 Posts |
Posted - 14/07/2011 : 11:44:23
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| the character of a voice is often more important to the song than it hitting every note perfectly, think Dylan, Waites, Cash, Orbison, Reed and Lennon, all prone to waver but all very interesting. Personally I feel that music is a natural thing and that the gadgets involved often detract from the main intention which is reaching people and giving them an experience, you will always get people who will not like your voice but others may love it, embrace your quirks they are part of your music, if that doesn't work for you stick a hand over one ear folk singer style it really helps. |
old drums, old cymbals |
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cho_drummer
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
3120 Posts |
Posted - 14/07/2011 : 12:22:41
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Yes, use it. There's nothing wrong with it IMO. You're selling a product not a voice and besides, I've yet to come across a singer who can sing a song perfectly in one take. It takes multiple takes to get it right. If you get the right tone and feeling but the pitch is slightly off, why wouldn't you just fix the pitch rather than going through another 30-40 takes trying to get that same feeling? IMO autotune is a tool used to save time and money in the studio.
That said, don't buy autotune. Buy melodyne. It's by FAR the best pitch correction tool out there and if you buy the higher end version it comes with DNA (direct not access) which, allows you to alter the pitch/position/duration/volume of individual notes from a polyphonic source. For example changing a guitar chord from major to minor.
At the end of the day, I don't think you should be precious about any aspect of studio recording. In the studio the end ALWAYS justifies the means. I don't care how you do it, as long as it sounds good.
Just my opinion. |
www.myspace.com/milocho
www.myspace.com/raisingangelsmusic |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 14/07/2011 : 13:59:43
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Well before 3 years ago I almost never sang, and if I did anyone in earshot quickly advised me of their discomfort. I reckon whatever training and practice I put in at my age and time availability is probably going to be too little too late. Doing multiple takes is normally a choice choice, but at my place about 90% of takes get spoilt by being in a busy yard: angle grinders, chain saws, saw bench, rip saws, stone carvers, hammering, and tenants and visitors going through my room all mean that I have to work fast and get what I can when I can.
Just after my last post I figured this out: "You Cannot Polish A Richard".
However, "An Air Freshener Spray Makes It More Bearable"
Interesting to see your post, Cho, I have been researching various makes, and upgrades to my Cubase 4 which would do this. I have just got back from Digital Village/Music Village, Clapham, where I placed my order for Melodyne Assistant, which should be in my eager paws tomorrow. Quite a lot of my singing IS acceptable enough for the style of music, but a I think a few tweaks will strengthen the overall affect without loosing any of my (Ahem) "character", and this seems to be the strong point with Melodyne, I will use it only when I need to.
Thanks all for very useful comments and advice, very much appreciated, I have asked friends and on a ukulele forum and thought through all the pros and cons. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 15/07/2011 : 20:28:25
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The Melodyne Assistant arrived today at the promised time. I found the instruction manual to be extremely "wordy" and I got word-blind, but eventually started making progress on my own.
The main reason I thought of getting one is that I have written and recorded a slow sentimental ballad. Not my cup of tea really, but I think it is possibly the best and most beautiful thing I have ever done, BUT with my crap wavering voice I just did not think it sounded good, despite what kind friends were saying!
About 30 minutes ago I finished doing some VERY subtle tweaks using the pitch correction function and the pitch modulation and pitch shift functions. The difference is TINY, but SO important. No-one will know that it has been corrected, but I can now be really proud of the song, and I am one mega-happy bunny!
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Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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TrevCircleStudios
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 15/07/2011 : 21:07:18
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| My brain is just about fried! My voice might still be carp, but at least it doesn't smell like it! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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djohnson1974
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
406 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2011 : 01:36:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Bubble
Cheers Trev, unlikely to be anytime soon, but I will be up in Brum for the National Drum Fair, perhaps a chance to meet up then, but I hope to have sorted this quest out by then!
OOoooh, when that capt? |
"Can you count to 4? Then you're in the band!" |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
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Bewdy
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
820 Posts |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 31/08/2011 : 08:52:50
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I have been looking for a singer for 2 years now, and finding anyone good enough who is prepared to work on a "project" rather than paid work has not been possible, and in that time I have learned how to use Cubase and pc recording and made 2 mini CDs, I would rather get my work done than sit around waiting for ever! Agreed my vocal performance does somewhat mar the CDs, but I am working on it and improving.
A/T is certainly an over-used effect and I hate it when used as an effect, but with care and a little practice it CAN be used to correct problems without being at all noticeable. It is a mis-conception that it always makes that awful electronic buzzing sound...that is fashionable and people do it deliberately, when used purely for correcting it is impossible to detect.
It may be "cheating", but then so is using EQ to enhance a drum's sound! I am glad I overcame my prejudice and mis=conceptions and found a tool which makes my singing a little better.. |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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rufusisdrumming
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
196 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2011 : 20:54:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Bewdy
I hate auto tune, it's a totally overused effect, and even used subtly it still sounds horrendous. My advise keep looking for a singer. When you get a decent one on your recording it makes the world of difference.
You will find that pretty much every recording in the last 20 years has autotune (or equivalent) sure some of it is very obvious and does sound obvious but on the most part it is used in tiny amounts subtly. Like everything in mixing, use too much and its immediately obvious but if you do it right then nobody should no you've one it. |
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Bewdy
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
820 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2011 : 09:21:23
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quote:
Originally posted by rufusisdrumming
quote:
Originally posted by Bewdy
I hate auto tune, it's a totally overused effect, and even used subtly it still sounds horrendous. My advise keep looking for a singer. When you get a decent one on your recording it makes the world of difference.
You will find that pretty much every recording in the last 20 years has autotune (or equivalent) sure some of it is very obvious and does sound obvious but on the most part it is used in tiny amounts subtly. Like everything in mixing, use too much and its immediately obvious but if you do it right then nobody should no you've one it.
That's a sweeping statement if ever I heard one, have you got any facts to back that up with? Other than just your opinion. |
LEARN TO DRUM ON THE iPHONE www.mapexdrummasterclass.com
WORK: www.virtual-engineering.co.uk PLAY: http://soundcloud.com/voodoo-cartel |
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blacklabel
Active Contributer
United Kingdom
65 Posts |
Posted - 19/10/2011 : 09:00:10
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Haha, this is a good, and very naive topic :)
Todays "professional" music if you don't use autotune on vocals (no matter how prominent or subtle) you'll stick out like a sore thumb.
Aside from the Kanye West, T-Pain sounds known as HardTune, a general autotune will make a vocal track that bit sharper/in key etc. Not much different than tuning your guitar or drums before you record really.
As for personal use recording i would suggest getting Antares Autotune VST (to be used with a DAW such as Cubase, Logic, etc) which can be purchased or maybe downloaded somewhere (probly around 5MB max)
For hardware i would suggest looking at some of the TC Helicon pedals. They CAN add autotune with the press of a button, and have great reverb and delay effects without sounding like T-pain. However due to the versatility of Autotune you can also sound synthetic if you want to.
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Bazarre
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
7985 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2011 : 12:33:37
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| Cap'n: how about a few singing lessons with a voice coach? It would be a shame to lose the personality of your (no doubt) unique sound! |
Sex, magic and R n R! -- all in ZOLIN! now on Amazon for Kindle readers |
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Captain Bubble
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
14642 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2011 : 08:40:28
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| Yup, something I plan to do "sometime", but when I have the time I don't have the money, and when I have the money I don't have the time! |
Marcus de Mowbray
www.330studios.co.uk/marcus |
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