Donavan Hepburn

Interview with Donavan Hepburn - Take That, Olly Murs

Over the 11 years of running mikedolbear.com, I have seen many drummers coming up and making a name for themselves. Donavan is one of those drummers. I was first made aware of this young (at the time) drummer from Birmingham when he was playing with Miss Dynamite, before he went on later to tour with Take That (minus Robbie). Since then, Donavan has gone from one big gig to another, which as many will tell you, is not easy in todays music industry. He was the man behind the tubs for the biggest selling UK tour of all time when Robbie went back out with Take That.

I caught up with him before a UK date with his latest boss and all round nice guy Olly Murs. As Olly told me; ''Not only is Donavan a great drummer who holds it all together every night, but a great guy to have around on the bus and in the downtime'', which is a lesson that many musicians should learn.

How did it all start?

It started around the age of between eight and ten.  My older brother Martin was a drummer and he used to play in church. When his wife was expecting their first child, my brother wasn’t at church so I saw that as my opportunity to get up and have a go, so I did.  Epic fail.  I got told to come off.  The first time I plucked up the courage I was told ''No you’re not ready'' and it absolutely crushed me.  So I came back the next Sunday, and had another go, it was cool.  Until I was around 11 I was only playing in church, then there was local groups and bands around Birmingham and the West Midlands.  From the age of 19 I was given an opportunity to play with a band that was signed to Massive Attack’s label, called Day One, so I took that opportunity and that was the one sort of footing I needed.

So did you have lessons?

No I am self-taught.  Obviously my brother was a massive influence, but there was just music always playing in the house.  It was a big family.  When I think of my childhood, I was the youngest, there was just always music playing, all different types - funk, hip hop and soul and jazz.  There was always music and I could hear my brother in his room just tapping along to stuff, so when he would go out I’d go in his room.  I’d play along to records and the radio.  I didn’t realize how much stuff I was soaking in, all those years of listening to music.  It was always the drums I identified with, it was never bass, or keys or guitar or anything like that.

You had no formal training ever?

Maybe for a little bit between leaving school and then becoming a pro, maybe a year or so I was at Walsall College.  It’s not like they taught me how to play, it’s just what I felt I had to do - get a music qualification - so I went to music college.  It was a bit strange for me because what freaked me out about being in college, and this is no diss on college whatsoever, but everybody sounded the same. It was like they’d got a particular formula how they wanted guys to play and how they wanted guys to sound and how they wanted guys to express themselves behind the kit.  That freaked me out because things just used to come to me and I just used to play ‘em.  So to be taught ''Ok, this is the way, let’s learn this song, this sort of style'', I don’t know if it was immaturity or fear or a mixture of the two, but it just didn''t work for me. Isn’t music a form of expression? Isn’t drums a form of expression?  I know you’re playing a song, but surely there can’t be this narrow minded view of that’s how you play drums, so I dropped out before finishing the year.  Then I got this opportunity to play in a band.

So when you first started playing along to records, did you know the basics?

Yes, I knew the fundamentals like kick, hihat and snare and that’s where your groove comes from, and you got to get that together. I felt like the rest was all improvising.

Photo; James Cumpsty

So you learnt from watching?

Yeah.

Why do you think over the last few years we’ve seen a big influx from guys that have come from churches, making a good name for themselves?

I don’t know, it’s a hard question.  I guess it’s because of guys that have gone on before them and they’ve seen that you can make a living out of playing music. For me, looking ahead when I was younger, there were some real great examples of players out there, that I thought, ''oh man, I can achieve that''.  So I would like to think that rather than thinking ''that’s easy, I can do that'', they’ve seen guys that are a good example to them. At least, that’s my hope.

When I was growing up we had working men’s clubs and clubs we could play in, which don''t exist anymore.  I’m wondering if church has become somewhere you can now play regularly. How many times did you play a week, was it just Sunday service?

We used to have two services on a Sunday and then there’d be the odd gospel concert during the week, or you’d go and play at another church during the week, with a choir.  There was a big gospel scene when I was growing up, between the age of 14 and 18.  For those four years I was quite heavily involved in working with various choirs and solo artists that used to go out and do concerts and stuff. So yes, it is most certainly a good opportunity to play and learn.

Was there any drummer in particular that you can think of that you were influenced by at a young age?  Anyone that you got into?

I‘d have to say guys like Peter Lewington, Velroy Bailey, Chris Bailey.  There’s a local guy from Birmingham, Ray Prince. Other influences were Bonnie Bryden and there’s some guys that don’t play anymore.  There’s a guy called Lloyd O’Brien, and obviously my brother Martin.

Does Martin play still?

He doesn’t actually.  Every now and again.  I think he likes the fact that I’ve carried it on and made a career out of it.  Martin’s the one brother that will always come and see me play and I think there’s a part of him that’s fulfilled to know that, ok, Don’s carried it on, where I didn’t go the full way. I got one of my Premier kits made in the exact same colour as my brother’s old kit.  So the first kit I played was his Pearl Export and it was piano white and I remember he bought it in the ''80''s. When I was about five I remember coming downstairs and seeing this kit and it was just the best thing ever.  So when I got with Premier and they asked me about colours of kits, I went for a piano white kit and when he came to the show he almost welled up.  It was like “How come you went for that colour?” I said “That’s my tribute to you man.”  You know, a white kit, beautiful.  I think he’s very proud that I’ve gone forward and sustained it and maintained it.

So when you left college what did you do ?

I had a run of various jobs.

Did you always know that this is what you wanted to do?

Yes, the jobs were a means to an end. I worked in a sports shop, a hotel, all kinds of jobs. You know when there’s that particular point where you think ''my life’s got no meaning'' or no direction.  I’d be working my arse off saving up to buy drum gear.  I was about seventeen and I saved up all my money from working and got myself my first drum kit.

So how long until you got paid gigs?

It was October of ’99. I was around 19 years old. I remember just asking for unpaid leave from my job to go on tour. When I got home after doing my first little mini tour there was this brown envelope for me. It was a P45 and I remember thinking to myself ''Right then, I guess I’m a drummer now!'' 

The Take That Progress Live Tour kit

So did you do function gigs? How did you earn your money at the time?

I joined a Gladys Knight covers band which I was in for ages, and we’d do all the holiday camps, which was great for me, plus function gigs and weddings and parties. I learnt so much and just liked the fact that I was playing and I was earning from it. 

What do you think got you through the tough times when there was no gigs?

You’ve got to be stable mentally and have belief in yourself because it is just a waiting game really, but I always say, if something’s meant to be, it will happen.  I know it’s a cliché thing, but I think when it’s your time, your season, you’ve gotta to know;
 
1: how to identify an opportunity, and
2: when somebody gives you that break, just don’t screw it up. 

There are so many more opportunities out there now with things like your ''Young Drummer of the Year'' competition to help give young musicians exposure. But just because you can win a competition which is cool, it’s also a pivotal point. You then have to do the work to turn those into opportunities and don''t screw it up. There’s a difference between maximizing an opportunity and taking advantage of an opportunity.

At the end of the day, winning a competition doesn’t give you a gig. What it does is give you some exposure, contacts and then it’s down to you how you use those contacts.

There you go!  I think personally that’s what it’s all about.  So I say to younger guys to keep playing and just love the music, love your craft and then I think people identify with it.  I don’t know about you, but when you see someone who’s genuine, you can identify with it, straight off the bat and I think that’s what people saw in me.  Here’s a kid, for one he’s from Birmingham, so in comparison with that kind of big city London life, he’s a country boy. I was just into music.

Looking back, what do you think was the gig that was the break for you?

I would have to say the Mis-Teeq gig because it was the first band that I worked for that had Top Ten records.  I started doing that gig from 2001 and it was like ''I’m playing for an artist who songs are being played on music channels and on the radio and I’m the drummer for that band'', so definitely between 2001 and 2003 my profile started to raise, definitely.

Photo; James Cumpsty

Had you done auditions at that stage and not got gigs?

I’d done a load of TV mime promo bits.  I was working for an agency at the time and they would have the odd Top of the Pops mime sort of thing. So I did a few little bits of that, but it’s just a mime so you’re not really playing.  I did that for a little while and that’s when I landed the Mis-Teeq gig.  It was when the whole garage, two step thing was starting.  We had the whole massive thing with Craig David and then the female version was Alesha, Su-Elise and Sabrina.  Even then I remember thinking, as big as the gig was for me, I always had a mindset of ''don’t think long term''.  Ok, it’s a career, you’ve got an opportunity, do the best you can.  Back then I was still using the first Tama kit that I brought with no support.

Your big stadium tour I would imagine was Take That.

Yeah.

How did that gig come about, did you audition?

No.  Basically between the beginning of 2004 and 2005 I landed the Miss Dynamite gig, the second time around, so she had her second album and I was doing all the promo for that. At the same time Sugababes had had a record that was out and Dynamite and Sugababes were on the same record label, Polydor.  A lot of the gigs we were doing in the same place, all the promo, the TV stuff and festivals, we were on the same bill a lot of the time.

At that time Mike Stevens was MD’ing the Sugababes band and little did I know that he had had the call from Gary Barlow saying that Take That were re-forming, they wanted to go back out on tour and whatever. They called Mike, who was the original Take That MD first time round, to put the band back together. Little did I know that Mike was checking me out while I was playing with Miss Dynamite. He kinda liked what I did, he knew that I was into the whole electronic side of things, because the Take That stuff was very disco.

I remember it was New Year’s Day 2006 and I got a phone call from Mike telling me about the tour, basically asking me if I’d be up for it. I couldn’t actually believe it. I was getting married that year and our wedding day was supposed to be the 20th May, but the tour ran till the 27th.  I was like ''Yes, yes I wanna do it, cool!''.  Then the next person I called was my fiancée and I was like ''Hun, brilliant news, I’ve landed Take That'' and she was “What? Brilliant!'' ''There’s just one thing love, the tour it runs to the 27th May'' and she just burst into tears on the phone. 

So I drove round to her parent''s house and I was like ''Look, I’ve made some calls and blah, blah, blah'' and our wedding actually cost me about three grand less moving it back two weeks.  I was like ''Look, the church is cool, the reception, the honeymoon'' and then she came round.  So I got Rachel on side, and then had to explain to the parents! But they were cool.  I told my family, everybody was cool.  It was meant to be!

We did the tour and I remember the 20th May rained like hell. I was in Manchester and her brother phoned me and said ''All we need now is for the 3rd June to be the hottest day of the year'' – and it was!  That particular year it was that freak summer we had and it was really nice the way it all worked out.  Thankfully, even still at that point, it was always about the long term thinking and six, seven years later, I’m still doing Take That.

Donavan with Olly Murs

Did you think then that you’d landed on your feet?

No, I think coming from a big family, as I said, they always kept me grounded. I remember thinking, ''Wow, I’ve got married, I’ve got one of the biggest pop gigs going, it’s massive. Wow, let me do my best!''  I don’t know why, that’s just my default setting.  Maybe it’s just how I’ve been brought up in the church and whatever, to this day I’m still the same. 

I appreciate, I don’t take it for granted, but I’m always grateful to be working.  There’s always a lot of guys who ain’t.  Make the most of it. Like I said before, there’s a difference between maximizing an opportunity and wringing it out; like ''I’m the drummer with Take That I’m gonna call up Evian water'' and all that.  I know that with bigger gigs come bigger responsibilities and companies notice you.  I had loads of people on the phone saying ''Do you want these?'' No, I’m fine actually.

As they say the higher you are the further you could fall.

Exactly and sometimes the bigger the gig you go on, you’re an easier target for people. So there’s a lot of people saying ''Oh, you’ve changed'' and I’m like ''Have I really or is it just because I’m not around as much?'' So, I don’t really know.

Are you conscious of that?

Yes I was, but the day that stopped was 15th May 2009 and that was when my daughter was born.  So me and my wife, we got married, that’s fine, but now we’ve got a dependent that needs all my attention, so I don’t concern myself with what other people who might or might not think they know me, might say.

With all the bitterness, there’s a jealousy thing, as well.

Yeah.  Because that child needs all of me so, there’s my focus.  I come and do my job so I can raise my child and take care of things that matter.

Photo; James Cumpsty

How different was it this time round with Take That? What was the difference between the two, Take That when you first joined then and when Robbie came back?

For me it was quite a surreal feeling because I always spoke to Mike and Milton who were the original two from the original band and ask them how was it back in the day, in the 90s when Take That were at the height.  They would say ''Don see how it is now, you get all the fans at the hotel and following the busses multiply that by a hundred''.  I’m like ''Oh man''.  Their fans are like 30 and over now, imagine when they were kids and I’m like ''Oh man, that’s crazy''.  But now we’ve got the original fans from the 90s, they’ve all grown up and they’ve had kids and their kids have become fans now and so it’s a whole new generation.  But I think doing that and doing this Progress Tour, I got a sense of this 90s magic, hearing Robbie’s harmony on tracks like ‘Pray’ and ‘Never Forget’ and stuff. His whole vibe in the mix of the five of them and to see and hear the magic of the five of them, so it was nice.

What do you think is important as a drummer?

I would say knowing what you’re there to do.  You’re the drummer in a band, focus on playing the track, doing what you’re there to do.  It’s not your gig, it’s not your show, you’re just hired help, man, so you have to do what’s required - if they’ve asked you to play that certain way just do it.  I think when you start to believe your own hype you’re on a roll to failure man. Yep, definitely.

What advice would you give to anyone who’s coming into the music industry?

I would say you’ve got to be passionate about your craft for a start. Don’t believe the hype.  There’s a lot of hype surrounding the music industry, don’t believe it.  Take each day as it comes, try and keep level headed and let it be about the music first and foremost.  A lot of guys get caught up in that ''right, I’ve got a gig, now so let me call up all these companies and see what I can get for free'', but it’s gotta be about the music man, and let the music do the talking.

What advice would you give about the whole endorsement thing? That seems to be something that’s beginning to take over in younger guys now.

I think endorsements are great and I think what’s got lost is what the purpose of an endorsement is.  Like you said earlier, if I crack a cymbal, knowing that I’ve got that company support to call up Tina and say ''I’ve cracked my crash cymbal, can you send one?'', that’s brilliant. But first and foremost I’m into Zildjian cymbals, I’m into Yamaha drums, so that I’m playing gear that I’m genuinely into, not because it didn’t cost me anything to get it.  If I had to go out and buy the kit that I’m playing, I would have bought it and that’s personally what I think an endorsement should be about.  Not just what can I get for nothing, you’ve gotta be into it.  It’s sad to say that’s kinda got lost. It’s a shame and you’ve identified I think, there’s gonna be an abrupt end to it all, or it needs to be streamlined down to a handful of players.  I know that’s easy for me at my level, that’s recognised and established, it can almost seem like ''Well, it’s easy for you to say, but you needed a hand up at one point'', which is fair enough.

As you said, you bought your stuff at the beginning.

Yes, exactly and I always thought that I’ve got to prove myself to the companies that invested in me and I always had that mentality.  I’m on my third company now.  For whatever reason I left other companies, there was no kind of bad feeling or love lost or anything like that.  The fact still remains that as kid coming into the industry, I paid my dues man, I put my hand in my pocket and said ''I’m investing in a kit'', so I put my money where my mouth is.  I think, like you said earlier, that’s kind of lost a bit and it’s a bit concerning really that people associate getting a gig with getting free gear. You’ve really got to be into the product I think.

Interview: Mike Dolbear